Eliezer beautifully articulates the moral outrage I felt from the age of 3 to 18:
Another example would be the principal who, faced with two children who
were caught fighting on the playground, sternly says: “It doesn’t
matter who started the fight, it only matters who ends it.” Of course
it matters who started the fight. The principal may not have access to
good information about this critical fact, but if so, he should say so, not dismiss the importance
of who threw the first punch. Let a parent try punching the principal,
and we’ll see how far “It doesn’t matter who started it” gets in front
of a judge. But to adults it is just inconvenient that children fight, and it matters not at all to their convenience which child started it, it is only convenient that the fight end as rapidly as possible.
Judging from my kids’ kindergarten, schools seem to have changed very much for the better: “Tattling” on bullies is encouraged rather than scorned, bullies are punished, and justice is served. My kids want the severity of punishment to be harsher still, but they just don’t know how good they’ve got it.
READER COMMENTS
RL
Feb 20 2009 at 11:31pm
Aren’t you assuming the “tattling” is always accurate, honest, and unbiased, never an effort to game the system to the tattler’s advantage? [Not YOUR children, of course…]:-)
david
Feb 21 2009 at 3:26am
Gaming the system seems a little sophisticated for the average playground gladiator.
You might have to watch out with older children, I guess, but even then convincing sociopathic liars are a little hard to come by.
Kurbla
Feb 21 2009 at 3:51am
Great.
When I remember my childhood – all adults tried to learn me good things. It doesn’t matter who they were, leftist, rightist, parents, teachers, relatives, neighbors – all of them said and shown only good things. If they did bad things, they surely did, at least they tried to hide it from children. All ugly, disrespectful, violent, cruel kinds of behavior I developed or learned from other children when we were alone. Focusing on catching and discouraging such behavior as early and as long as possible could have surprising potential for improvement.
Snar
Feb 21 2009 at 10:41am
I must have been less sophisticated growing up. I can’t even remember being 3, much less feeling “moral outrage” towards anything until I was considerably older. I probably stumbled through the reward/punishment phase of moral development at least until the age of 5.
One wonders if Prof. Caplan also felt righteous indignation towards forced compliance (ie. being asked to shake hands with fellow students or participate in school prayer) at such a tender young age?
Bob Murphy
Feb 21 2009 at 1:16pm
If the school authorities don’t get the job done, there is always Slim Shady’s method for dealing with bullies on his block.
Bob Murphy
Feb 21 2009 at 1:20pm
Hmm that YouTube link above was supposed to kick in at 1:00, but it’s starting at the beginning. Whoops.
Dan
Feb 21 2009 at 4:43pm
Encouraging tattling will get your kids killed one day. In the real world, people will destroy you for tattling. It is never a good idea to encourage your kids to tattle. They need to learn that the world is full of rocks and hard places.
And another guy was right on here. The tattlers could be liars. And does the tattling end there or could kids tattle out of jealousy?
Tattling is something that tiny little dorks do. Tell your kids to stay away from it.
Ak Mike
Feb 21 2009 at 5:35pm
Dan, you’re 180 degrees wrong. Not tattling is what people in failed societies do, societies that have no public order and where physical violence is unchecked.
People in civilized societies turn in miscreants – that’s what keeps such societies civilized.
Kurbla
Feb 21 2009 at 7:26pm
I completely agree with Ak Mike. Children should be encouraged to report bullies, thieves etc.
Dan
Feb 21 2009 at 7:35pm
Fair enough–but you will still take a hit if you do it most times. If you are altruistic enough, go for it.
Dan
Feb 21 2009 at 10:29pm
Make sure to tell your kids that the teachers are not always around, and there is a world away from school called “everywhere else” where these people might find them.
I just don’t want my kids getting beat senseless somewhere if it isn’t worth it.
Ak Mike
Feb 22 2009 at 12:28am
Dan, you belong in a part of the world where the vendetta still rages. Your paranoia might be justified there.
marie
Feb 22 2009 at 2:09am
Dan, I’m not really sure what world you live in but I hope my children will just not sit in some corner while some kids are doing harm. You can’t solve a problem by ignoring it either at school, YOUR home or work.
Dan
Feb 22 2009 at 2:30am
Where did you all go to school? How old are you? Where I went to school, people got hurt for doing stuff like that. I guess if you live in the suburbs you are ok.
A list of cities in which it is not ok to tattle on people in the public school system in junior high or high school and let someone find out about it:
Oakland, CA
Camden, NJ
Philly
St. Louis, MO
Miami, FL
The bottom line is, if you screw with people who have more power than you, you will get hurt.
And I am not paranoid. I have seen this happen quite a bit.
scott clark
Feb 22 2009 at 6:00pm
Stop Snitchin’
don’t teach kids to snitch. not just for the reasons Dan mentions. kids are being taught to turn in their parents for everyting from recreational drug use to recycling violations, and then it gets all sorts of Orwellian.
i am glad that the kid’s school is a more civilized place than times past, and justice is preserved. but it can get twisted right quick.
Dan Weber
Feb 23 2009 at 6:07pm
Bryan, you may have been able to comprehend the moral lessons and injustice involved in draconian rules. (And I believe you since I still remember the stupidity and injustice of several primary-school teachers.) But most 3 year olds aren’t. Hell, a lot of 13 year olds cannot.
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