
Wokeness seems to embody two features: on one hand, collectivist or groupist ideals; on the other hand, a rejection of reason and truth. Interestingly, the political opponents of wokeness in America and the world tend to reproduce these same two features—with, on the right, more emphasis on collectivist nationalism than tribal groupism. Both strands of wokeness, on the right and the left, are ridiculous and may exceed the limits of conversation. A rational conversation with a clown is difficult.
We have had many illustrations of that recently but let me recall what may be the mother of all wokeness in this wide, non-partisan sense. During the last presidential campaign, the person who was to become the vice president of the United States spread rumors that he rapidly knew to be untrue about Haitians eating American pets in Springfield, Ohio. When confronted with his lies by a journalist, he essentially replied that they were for a good cause (see the review of the whole event in Kris Maher, Valerie Bauerlein, and Tawnell Hobbs’s, “How the Trump Campaign Ran With Rumors About Pet-Eating Migrants—After Being Told They Weren’t True,” Wall Street Journal, September 18, 2024):
Vance insisted on CNN this past Sunday that he had firsthand accounts of the incidents from constituents, but the media had paid no attention to migrant problems in American cities “until Donald Trump and I started talking about cat memes.” He added, “If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people, then that’s what I’m going to do.”
This declaration came after presidential candidate Donald Trump, in a debate with his opponent Kamala Harris, had amplified the false rumors. In his usual style (“in his old and rough way of speaking,” prisco illo dicendi et horrido modo, as Roman historian Livy would repeat from Ab Urbe Condita), Trump declared:
In Springfield, they’re eating the dogs. The people that came in, they’re eating the cats. They’re eating, they’re eating, the pets of the people that live there. And this is what’s happening in this country.
Department of Justice lawyers have recently been scolded by judges for incorrect information, a problem that may be due to the departure of many career lawyers since the election and the large number of suits against the new administration (“DOJ Slip-Ups Show Challenges of Defending Trump’s Freewheeling Approach,” Wall Street Journal, February 24, 2024). But another factor may be that when the big political bosses lie openly and shamelessly, the value of the truth drops for their subordinates. Eight decades ago, Friedrich Hayek feared that the growth of state intervention would lead to “the end of truth.”
One must be prudent with ad hominem arguments. Arguments should be about arguments. Yet, when a homo does not recognize his errors but doubles down on them, or does not believe in the value of truth, perhaps the reply cannot avoid being ad hominem. If it were true that all Cretans lie, this fact could be taken into account when evaluating a Cretan’s pronouncements. Time is scarce and assuming that all sources of information are similarly credible and deserving of serious consideration is a recipe for intellectual gridlock at best. Where is H.L. Mencken when we need him?
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Conversation with a clown
READER COMMENTS
Craig
Feb 25 2025 at 11:12am
Know who else dressed like a clown? John Wayne Gacy, right? Wow, that escalated quickly, right? But there is a third thing and it can’t be easily dismissed because the third rail is a sense, and I’d say genuinely felt, of dissaffection amd aggrievement. That pendulum IS going to swing back. Somebody like Colin Kaepernick gave up a fairly lucrative football career. Its not a joke and I’d suggest one can’t simply dismiss them as clowns.
Pierre Lemieux
Feb 25 2025 at 11:25am
Craig: Who do you think is disaffected and aggrieved? Where do you see a pendulum? You care to elaborate?
Craig
Feb 25 2025 at 11:32am
Many might, off the top of my head I’d suggest BLM reflects dissaffection among African Americans.
As for the pendulum I mean the political pendulum, it swung against the leftists, though maybe not from your point of view, but make no mistake about it, it will swing the other way. 4 years, 8 years, hard to tell. So there was a Trumpian rebuke, perhaps the inflection point was that Bud Light commercial, the left are incrementalists, they take an inch and see if they can get the next inch and then they get rebuked but they’ll be back for those inches later.
Pierre Lemieux
Feb 26 2025 at 4:13pm
Craig: Perhaps one can indeed imagine a small pendulum around a deep upward trend in the growth of state power. Just looking at the 20th century and the 21st up to now, both “the left” and “the right” have brought their contributions to this large trend when they were in power. Following Watergate and the stagflation of the 1970s, one could have thought that liberty made some progress in America (freedom of speech, rejection of McCarthyism, quasi-abolition of conscription, depoliticization of justice, and such). But during the last 10 years, most of these gains around the trend have been canceled; today, they are being more than canceled.
steve
Feb 25 2025 at 11:20am
What definition of wokeness are you using? I would agree entirely if you are using wokeness as practiced by the purity police in a couple of our big cities or at the most liberal schools. However if, as I believe it is more commonly used, it means accepting that we still have remnants of racism and sexism in our society, there is lots of good data to support that belief. Otherwise I think your point is well taken. From my POV we have progressed from arguing about or misusing data from poorly done studies that at least tried to support one’s ideology to blatantly lying, admitting that you lied and then bragging about lying as we saw with Vance.
Steve
Richard W Fulmer
Feb 25 2025 at 11:48am
Here’s my definition:
steve
Feb 25 2025 at 4:08pm
I would probably stay with the dictionary definition since that is generally what I see in practice since I dont live or work in a large coastal city or work at an ultra-liberal university. It seems to fit with the huge majority of people I speak with online. The large majority of people know little to nothing about Critical Theory (especially those that criticize it) or any of those other theories. Most people are just aware that certain groups in the US have suffered historic prejudices and some of those remain. I think that anyone who believes and practices everything you describe is probably one of the nutty purity police.
“aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)”
Steve
Kevin Corcoran
Feb 26 2025 at 1:23pm
First, can you name someone who denies that “we still have remnants of racism and sexism in our society”? If possible, please cite specific examples of people making that claim explicitly.
Second, if we merely define “woke” to mean anyone who believes “we still have remnants of racism and sexism in our society” then we’d have to say both George Will and Yoram Hazony are “woke.” After all, in their most recent books (The Conservative Sensibility and Conservatism: A Rediscovery respectively) both of them emphasize that there are remnants of racism and sexism in our society, that this is bad and should be opposed, and both of them explicitly give the progressive movement credit for being on the right side of that issue. So sure, we can just define woke to mean that, but if your definition of “woke” commits you to saying that George Will and Yoram Hazony are “woke” you really should take a moment to consider if you are defining it that way because it genuinely helps classify people’s belief is a clarifying way, or if it’s just a simple motte-and-bailey trap.
Feminism just means believing women are people! Woke just means believing there’s still some racism and sexism in the world! By those definitions, I’m a woke feminist. As is basically every single person I know. And yet, somehow, very very few of them would, if asked, identify themselves as either woke or feminist. Possibly, perhaps, because in the real world, that’s not even close to what people mean when they use those terms?
In a way it reminds me of the movie Trumbo, where the titular Dalton Trumbo tells his daughter, who askes him about communism, that if she’d share her lunch with a friend who had nothing to eat, then she’s a communist. Okay, sure, if we insist on defining communism that way, then I, too, am a communist. But if your definition of “communist” is set up to count anyone as “communist” outside of those devoid of empathy to such a sociopathic degree such that they wouldn’t even help a hungry friend, it’s probably a sign that your definition is useless to the point of being counterproductive.
David Seltzer
Feb 26 2025 at 2:03pm
Kevin wrote; “But if your definition of “communist” is set up to count anyone as “communist” outside of those devoid of empathy to such a sociopathic degree such that they wouldn’t even help a hungry friend, it’s probably a sign that your definition is useless to the point of being counterproductive.” Really well argued. Anecdote: A friend, an old guy like me, is a Chicago school of economics Libertarian. His oft stated position. “I’m not duty-bound to provide for anybody, save for my family. That doesn’t mean I’m not charitable or empathetic.” I know he’s quietly worked at various shelters in Atlanta feeding and helping those in need. Echoing Ayn Rand, hardly a communist.
Pierre Lemieux
Feb 26 2025 at 4:18pm
Steve: Your last sentence vividly describes what we are seeing now. (It was already so obvious during Trump’s first term.)
As for my “definition” of wokeness, I admit that it was not a real definition. A real definition ideally consists of a set of necessary and sufficient conditions. I was running with only two broad “features.” These features, though, represent well the methodology of wokeness and of the rightist-statist reaction.
steve
Feb 27 2025 at 12:43pm
I would agree that few people think that there is no racism, however, there is no shortage of people that believe there is no systemic racism. I dont read Will much anymore but I doubt he believes there is any systemic racism. I can provide quotes from a number of prominent politicians from Trump on down claiming it doesnt exist. Yet we have lots of data showing differences in drug prosecutions/sentencing by race. Car stops by race. Medical care by race. Look at policing where Fryer’s work gets cited where he claimed shootings were not increased by race but rather criminality. In the same study he showed that by police self reporting they admitted to a 25% higher use of root needed force on minorities over white people.
Anyway, I think woke still retains a pretty vague definition that is so variable as to be almost meaningless. Using the dictionary definition that I quoted makes it clear, as Pierre noted, that in fact people behind those on the left have their own wokeness. Communism has a more precise definition but I think socialism now has the same characteristic. I will again stipulate that when you sum up all the negative traits you can think of and lump them into the worst possible definition that there are people who try to live up to that definition, I just dont think they make up a large percentage. They do get amplified by the internet.
Steve
Kevin Corcoran
Mar 2 2025 at 7:29am
There’s already a bit of a motte-and-bailey going on right now in this comment of yours compared to your last. Initially, you said being “woke” only means believing there are “remnants of racism and sexism” in society – whereas now you’re characterizing it as believing that society is systematically racist, which is a wildly different and much stronger claim.
And I’ll admit I’ve found arguments for systemic racism to be pretty underwhelming at best at painfully bad at worst. One of the biggest issues is that people often simply define systematic racism to be any system which does not produce identical results across various groups. But by this definition, it’s incoherent to then point to differences of outcomes across groups and claim that systematic racism is the cause of those disparate outcomes. The same phenomenon cannot be both an outcome and its own cause.
And in all the other domains you cited, the research asserting those claims has usually been very weak and open to serious challenges and rebuttals. To use just one, you talk about medical outcomes. A study in early 2024 made waves when it claimed that black babies get better outcomes when attended to by black doctors compared to white doctors, and this was immediately and uncritically accepted as Irrefutable Evidence That The Medical Establishment is Systematically Racist. But within a few months, that study was soundly rebutted, when George Borjas and Robert VerBruggen published an analysis showing the initial study failed to implement very basic controls. Simply controlling for babies with low birth weight (cases prone to negative outcomes, and ones disproportionately attended to by white doctors) was enough to eliminate the supposed effect. But you’ll still find the first claim being loudly and uncritically proclaimed to this day, as if it was the Absolute Unquestionable Truth.
Another reason I find the systemic racism arguments unpersuasive is because they virtually all claim that systemic racism has the effect of being particularly beneficial to whites over other racial groups. But if so, it’s doing a pretty mediocre job at best. As Mark Perry frequently points out, whites are nowhere near the most successful ethnic groups in America, by virtually anything you care to measure. If the systemic racism argument was meant seriously, and applied consistently, it would have to compel on to conclude that social structures are set up in a way that favors Asian Americans, Syrian Americans, Indian Americans, Nigerian Americans, among many others, who all significantly outperform white Americans. Scott Alexander, as is often the case, summed it up well:
Richard Fulmer
Feb 25 2025 at 11:44am
When your political boss is a vindictive liar, then truth becomes a liability.
David Seltzer
Feb 25 2025 at 4:03pm
Pierre wrote, “A rational conversation with a clown is difficult.” I would respond with LMAO but clowns with considerable power are scary! Vance justifying creating untrue stories; is he saying lying is a better kind of truth?
Craig
Feb 25 2025 at 7:25pm
At least the clowns dress like clowns and are usually motivated by a desire to amuse children at birthday parties whereas politicians don’t actually dress like the duplicitous snakes that they are.
Mactoul
Feb 26 2025 at 1:03am
“As naturally as the ruled always took the morality imposed upon them more seriously than did the rulers themselves, the deceived masses are today captivated by the myth of success even more than the successful are. Immovably, they insist on the very ideology which enslaves them. The misplaced love of the common people for the wrong which is done to them is a greater force than the cunning of the authorities.” -Theodor Adorno, Philosophical Fragments
Pierre Lemieux
Feb 26 2025 at 4:32pm
Mactoul: Interesting quote. In my view (and in the view of nearly all, if not all, anglo-saxons liberals, the “masses” are good, when free, at getting out of poverty and generating prosperity–not at ruling over others. (See my “Menken’s Theory of Democracy” in the last issue of Regulation.)
Scott Sumner
Feb 26 2025 at 1:13am
Very good post. I feel sort of like Rip Van Winkle, like I fell asleep in the USA and woke up to find myself living in a banana republic.
Jose Pablo
Feb 26 2025 at 11:22am
Calling this a ‘banana republic’ could qualify as the understatement of the century
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGhfpgHsOg6/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
How do we get here? it is truly soul-breaking.
Jose Pablo
Feb 26 2025 at 11:26am
This is beyond clowness
Pierre Lemieux
Feb 26 2025 at 4:46pm
Scott: Your ” I fell asleep in the USA and woke up to find myself living in a banana republic” is the most quotable and the most tragic statement I have seen in a while.
Roger McKinney
Feb 26 2025 at 11:32am
When have politicians not openly lied and when caught yry to rationalize? My grandfather told me 60 years ago that it’s easy to tell when a politician is lying: his lips are moving. We are so used to politicians lying that we’re shocked only when one tells the truth.
Jose Pablo
Feb 26 2025 at 11:49am
There are lies, and then there are lies. When falsehoods follow a rational pattern, they can be predicted and managed. Particularly when, as you point out, they follow a time-honored tradition.
It is their unpredictability—and more than anything, their arbitrariness—that makes lies dangerous and utterly unacceptable
Roger McKinney
Feb 27 2025 at 7:08pm
I don’t think you can distinguish between safe and unsafe lies. Hume said we should assume all politicians are knaves. We should also consider them habitual liars..
Pierre Lemieux
Feb 26 2025 at 4:52pm
Roger: I think we must agree with Jose that “There are lies, and then there are lies.” (I have a dormant paragraph on this in one of my abandoned post ideas. The difference between the ordinary politician, whom public choice theory expects to lie whenever beneficial for him, and homo Trumpus politicus, which is much more than that.)
Roger McKinney
Feb 27 2025 at 7:17pm
I disagree. A lie is a lie and all are harmful. I assume all politicians are lying and pay attention to what they do, which is usually the opposite of what they say.
I doubt you can distinguish between harmless and harmful lies. The most damaging lies are half truths because they fool gullible people. Some politicians depend on lies being so outrageous that people assume no one would make such an extreme lie and so don’t look onto it. People lie most with statistics and history.
Democrats think their lies are harmless but Republican lies are destructive. Republicans think that of Democrat lies.
robc
Feb 26 2025 at 11:56am
Still dead.
Kevin Corcoran
Feb 26 2025 at 1:25pm
But for how much longer?
Mactoul
Feb 27 2025 at 12:00am
But there are great lies that are being ended by Trump administration. First the Climate Change Green Energy that has been propagated for last 30+ years and is more than capable to destroying global prosperity.
Second, the Transgenderism lie that a man can turn into a woman and vice-versa. This is more than sufficient to destroy any people that believe in it.
It is no small feat to end these lies.
Jose Pablo
Feb 27 2025 at 9:37am
the Climate Change Green Energy
This is not a matter of deception; it’s a matter of preferences. You sacrifice a certain level of prosperity today in exchange for an uncertain level of prosperity in the future.
Different individuals have different perceptions of future prosperity (the real impact of climate change) and apply different discount rates.
What is truly a mistake—pure tyranny—is imposing a single set of preferences deemed ‘optimal’ by the government on everyone. This is not a lie, and both the Trump and Biden administrations have engaged in the same tyranny; they merely impose different preferences.
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