In his book Word and Object, W. V. Quine describes the problems that arise when one is attempting to translate an entirely unfamiliar language. Among the ideas he raises in his discussion is that when attempting to translate what someone is saying, one should employ the principle of charity, by which Quine meant we should assume “assertions startlingly false of the face of them are likely to turn on hidden differences of languages.” If your translation implies your interlocutor has said something patently absurd, you should assume that something has been lost in translation rather than assume you’re speaking with a fool. And Quine points out that this isn’t limited to translating from unknown languages – the same problem can arise “in the domestic case” as a result of “linguistic divergence.”

I try, however imperfectly, to apply this idea when talking to other people. And recently, I wondered if such a “linguistic divergence” might, if properly accounted for, help me form a more charitable understanding of how some people talk about rights.
The view in question has been described by Michael Huemer as the Legalist View of rights. (Of note, in that paper Huemer is talking specifically about property rights, but the same view is often taken about rights more generally.) As Huemer puts it, in the Legalist View,
This is a line of thought I’ve heard in various forms over the years. Its proponents will often say “Rights exist only to the extent that they are established by a society and/or enforced by the state. To speak of something that has no social enforcement behind it as a ‘right’ is a confusion. If it’s not upheld and enforced by a state or by society, then it’s not a right.”
Now, this line of thought has always struck me as, in Quine’s words, startlingly false on the face of it, because it has rather absurd implications. For example, I take it as given that slavery represented the greatest institutionalization of human rights violations in history. But on the “rights only exist when enforced by a state” view, slavery wasn’t a rights violation at all. If rights only exist if a state (or sufficiently strong social conventions) recognize and enforce them, then it simply follows that whenever and wherever slavery is enforced by the state and considered generally acceptable by citizens, no enslaved person experiences any violation of their rights – because genuinely they have none. On this view, the infamous Dredd Scott decision declaring that African Americans “had no rights which the white man was bound to respect” wasn’t a grave error – it was an unambiguously factual statement (at least at the time). If your theory says slavery doesn’t violate anyone’s rights as long as society approves of it and the state enforces it, you need a better theory.
Or so it always seemed to me. But I now wonder if, perhaps, there is a hidden difference of languages, or a linguistic divergence, that might cast this in a different light. I recently recalled a back and forth from the comment section on this blog on the nature of rights from a few years back (yes, I can remember things like this but can’t usually remember when my sibling’s birthdays are!). One commentator defended a legalistic view of rights, saying that if one believes “rights exist and can be ‘negated’ even when the social context clearly doesn’t recognize those rights, then I won’t agree with that bit of the argument. There are many rights that I think societies should create and protect; but they don’t exist before the society goes and does that.”
But I realized from something else the commenter said that maybe his view might be salvageable. Also discussed in that post was the Loving v Virginia case that overturned bans on interracial marriage. On the legalistic view defended by this commenter, one would have to say that such laws, before they were struck down, didn’t violate anyone’s rights. And this commenter accepted that implication – although he also added his belief that “the Lovings *should have had* the right to marry.” Nonetheless, before the court rulings were issued, they had no such right.
So here’s my suggestion that might bridge the gap. This commenter affirmed that he believed the Lovings should have had the right to get married. This in turn entails that it was wrong for the state to prevent them from getting married. Well, saying “it’s wrong for the state to prevent people from X” is, to people like me, simply what it means to say people have a right to X. If I say “people have a right to free speech,” I’m saying that it’s wrong for the state to forcibly silence people from speaking. It’s a prescriptive claim, which in turn allows us to evaluate what kinds of laws are appropriate or inappropriate. On this view, laws and conventions can be rights violations. By this other definition of rights, saying “people have a right to free speech” is a descriptive claim, and as such it may be true or false depending on the laws and conventions in any given society. Thus, on this view, laws and conventions cannot violate rights, because “rights” simply means “whatever is recognized and enforced by laws and conventions.”
Consider, then, when this commenter also said “There are many rights that I think societies should create and protect; but they don’t exist before the society goes and does that.” This is affirming the view that there is something out there, existing prior to and independently of social enforcement, and that particular something ought to be protected and recognized. To the extent that society or the state should protect these things but does not do so, that is a failing and should be corrected. To people like me, that prior thing is what we speak of when we talk about rights, and what we mean when we say rights exist prior to and independently of being formally recognized and enforced by the state or social conventions. This commenter and I both agree that there is something existing prior to state policy and social conventions that prescribes what such policy and conventions should be. It’s just that I call this prior existing something “rights”, and he does not.
As a further example, here’s another thought experiment Huemer offers in the previously cited paper, where I toss in an additional caveat:
In this thought experiment, the hermit is not under the jurisdiction of any government, nor are there any reigning social conventions. Still, it seems obvious that you would be doing something wrong to the hermit if you carried out these acts. And I think almost everyone who accepts the legalist view of rights, if pressed, would acknowledge that it would be wrong to do these things to the hermit. Well, the wrongness of those actions is, to people like me, simply what it means to say the hermit has property rights here and that you’ve violated them. If you agree that it would be wrong to do these things to the hermit, then you agree with the substance of what people like me mean when we say the hermit has rights even in the absence of the state and social enforcement, even if you would describe the situation with a different vocabulary.
My point in this post is not to argue that one definition of “rights” is the objectively correct one, or that one is pragmatically superior to the other. (I may come back to that point in a future post, but let’s table it for now.) My point is simply that it’s possible much of the disagreement about whether rights exist prior to or independently of the state may simply be turning on a linguistic divergence over what the word “rights” is meant to designate.

READER COMMENTS
Richard W Fulmer
Jun 18 2024 at 3:27pm
Perhaps part of the confusion is that the word “rights” is sometimes used to mean “moral rights” and sometimes to mean “legal rights.” So, a person may have the moral right to, say, free speech, but not the legal right depending upon either the particular speech or the nation in which the speech is uttered. Hence the old joke:
Dylan
Jun 18 2024 at 6:19pm
I appreciate the principle of charity here, but I don’t know that it gets us all that far. By saying I think so and so right should exist, I’m not sure I’m doing anything more than stating a personal preference. That could be motivated by thinking that the world would be better if X…or I would be better off if X, or for any reason at all.
Despite occasionally being slandered as a moral person, I’m something of a moral nihilist. I don’t know that we have any natural rights, but I think the world works better (and is certainly a nicer place to live), if we pretend we do. In that sense, rights are always and everywhere a social construct that depend on the time and place and the needs of the people. And that framework might lag a little…like for instance, I think there is a “right” to free movement of people and find it abhorrent that the mere circumstance of the country you’re born in has such an outsize impact on your life. Obviously, legally the world disagrees. But also morally most disagree. I suspect that will change at some point (I’m an optimist) yet I don’t think that means that the “right” always existed from the time of the big bang through the cold, slow death of the universe.
Ahmed Fares
Jun 18 2024 at 7:23pm
There is slavery and then there is slavery. On the contrary, regulated slavery was a move up for many. From the comments on the following 10-minute YouTube video:
The speaker discusses the economics of slavery, and the difference in how slavery was practiced in different places.
Muslims have no need to flinch on the topic of slavery
Richard W Fulmer
Jun 19 2024 at 8:35pm
The video’s unidentified narrator’s attitude of contemptuous moral superiority is hardly supported by the facts. He claimed, for example, that only in the West were African slaves considered to be less than human. Look up the descriptions of African slaves by Islamic scholars Said al-Andalusi and Ibn Khaldun (one of Islam’s most celebrated and influential thinkers). I won’t repeat them here because their words are vile.
The speaker also claimed that castration is illegal under Islamic law, so captured Africans were castrated while in transit to the Muslim world. But the people transporting the slaves and performing the “operations” were, themselves, Muslim. And the captives would not have been butchered if there was no demand for castrated slaves among Muslim buyers.
An estimated 10-15% of captured slaves died in transit to the Americas, while over 20% died in transit to the Islamic world.
He also states that the United States is the biggest destination in the world today for trafficked slaves. However, the ten countries with the most people currently living under conditions of slavery are believed to be (numbers are all estimates):
India – 11 million people
China – 5.8 million
North Korea – 2.7 million
Pakistan – 2.3 million
Russia – 1.9 million
Indonesia – 1.8 million
Nigeria – 1.6 million
Turkey – 1.3 million
Bangladesh – 1.2 million
United States – 1.1 million
The nations with the highest proportion of slaves today are believed to be (again, all numbers are estimates):
North Korea: 104 per 1,000 people
Eritrea: 93 per 1,000
Mauritania: 32 per 1,000
Saudi Arabia: Proportion unknown
Afghanistan: Proportion unknown
Ahmed Fares
Jun 21 2024 at 5:39pm
Look up the descriptions of African slaves by Islamic scholars Said al-Andalusi and Ibn Khaldun (one of Islam’s most celebrated and influential thinkers). I won’t repeat them here because their words are vile.
These people are celebrated in the West, not in the Islamic world.
I have ten years in the study of comparative religion. The first person you mentioned, I’d never heard of before. As for Ibn Khaldun, I’ve spent a total of about ten minutes reading a few quotes about him (he had some interesting ideas about sociology). His ideas are not representative of Islamic thought. I’ll circle around to slavery in a minute.
When I was young, I heard about the celebrated philosophers Ibn Sina (Avicenna) and Ibn Rushd (Averroes). In Islam, the greatest Muslim after the Prophet Muhammad is considered to be Al-Ghazali. He destroyed their ideas in a book titled: The Incoherence of the Philosophers. Ibn al-Arabi, while still a teenager, took down Averroes. Here, Ibn al-Arabi describes his meeting with the “great philosopher” (the last word I believe should be “allusion”).
Averroes wrote a book against Ghazali’s book titled: The Incoherence of the Incoherence. He was chained outside a mosque and people spat on him as they went in to pray (Muslim version of cancel culture.) Anyway, on the subject of slavery.
You make the claim that slaves were castrated by Muslims on the way to Muslim lands. Here is a Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad:
The Book of Oaths (qasamah), Retaliation and Blood Money
Meanwhile, in the West, as the author of the video points out:
Why Castrati Made Better Lovers
Richard W. Fulmer
Jun 21 2024 at 6:45pm
I didn’t make that claim, the unidentified narrator in your video did. All I did was to research who the people were who transported the slaves from Sub-Saharan Africa.
Richard W Fulmer
Jun 21 2024 at 2:50pm
Of the four main importers of African slaves – the United States, the Muslim world, Brazil, and the Caribbean – only in the United States were birth rates higher than death rates. The American slave population grew substantially through natural increase, while each of the other regions needed to continually import more slaves to maintain their slave populations.
United States:
While conditions for slaves in the United States were harsh, they were generally less lethal than those in the Middle East, Brazil, and the Caribbean. Slaves in the U.S. often had more stable food supplies, somewhat better shelter, and slightly better medical care, contributing to higher birth rates and lower death rates. By 1860, the slave population in the United States had grown to nearly 4 million, up from about 400,000 in 1770. This growth was almost entirely due to natural increase. No region matched the growth rate of the African slave population in the United States during the period of the Atlantic slave trade.
Middle East:
Slavery in the Middle East included domestic servitude, military service, and some agricultural labor. The treatment varied significantly based on the role and location. Some domestic slaves and those in administrative roles experienced relatively better conditions compared to those in the Americas. However, those in labor-intensive roles such as agricultural work or military service faced harsh conditions and high mortality rates.
There was a significant gender imbalance among Middle Eastern slaves, with many more female than male slaves, particularly in domestic settings. Additionally, many male slaves were castrated, further hindering population growth through reproduction. Access to medical care, nutritional standards, and social integration varied, often resulting in challenging living conditions that did not favor natural population growth.
High mortality rates and low birth rates meant that natural increase did not significantly contribute to population growth. The Middle East relied on the continual importation of slaves to maintain its slave population. It is estimated that between 10 and 18 million African slaves were transported to the Middle East over the course of more than 11 centuries.
Brazil:
In Brazil, especially on sugar plantations and later coffee plantations, conditions were brutal. The life expectancy of slaves was low due to harsh labor conditions, poor living standards, and disease. Mortality rates far exceeded birth rates. Brazil imported an estimated 4 million slaves; the area’s demographic growth among slaves was due to continued importation rather than natural increase.
Caribbean:
The Caribbean, particularly in sugar-producing colonies like Jamaica, Barbados, and Haiti, is often considered to have had the harshest conditions. Slaves endured brutal working environments with long hours, inadequate nutrition, severe physical punishment, and high mortality rates due to disease and overwork. Life expectancy for Caribbean slaves was very low. Many slaves did not live long after arrival, necessitating continual importation from Africa to maintain the labor force. The Caribbean islands imported an estimated 4 to 5 million slaves.
Ahmed Fares
Jun 23 2024 at 3:12pm
Slave breeding in the United States
For Muslims, the Prophet Muhammad is the role model to emulate.
[selected quotes]
Zayd ibn Haritha al-Kalbi
How bad could slavery have been if a person chose to remain a slave instead of being free? And like the video said, slaves could hold high positions of power, as the quote above shows. And like I said, that treatment of slaves was the model that the other Muslims had to follow.
Richard W Fulmer
Jun 23 2024 at 4:17pm
So, you have a data point of exactly one to “prove” that slavery wasn’t so bad under Islam. The fact that the death rate exceeded the birth rate means nothing. And the fact that the birth rate exceeded the death rate in the U.S. doesn’t imply better conditions, only that slave owners practiced slave breeding. Got it.
The video’s narrator first observed that slaves were treated well in the United States (noting that some 90% of a plantation’s gross income was spent on the slaves’ welfare), because it was in the slave owners’ interests to protect their investments. Yet he later claimed that slavery in the United States was uniquely barbaric. Well, which is it?
In any case, the data showing that natural increase occurred in the U.S. and nowhere else disprove his claim.
America was uniquely hypocritical – its founding document declared that it is self-evident that people are created equal, yet its slaves were treated very unequally. Islam was not similarly hypocritical; it openly embraced slavery and, if we are to believe the video’s narrator, does so still today.
Islam’s hypocrisy is that it ignored its own rules for the humane treatment of its slaves. This is demonstrated, for example, by the uniquely high death rates during the slaves’ transport to the Islamic world and by the castration of male slaves “enroute” (to use the narrator’s word).
As I observed earlier, the slaves would never have been castrated if their Muslim buyers hadn’t demanded castrated slaves. The fact is that Muslim institutions required castrated slaves. Harem guards, for example, had to be castrated to ensure that they weren’t tempted by the women who they were guarding. The military wanted their enslaved fighters to be castrated to ensure that their loyalties were not divided between duty and family.
Arguing that Islam is blameless of the crime of castration because it was done “enroute” by the slave traders is like claiming that someone is blameless of murder because he hired a hitman to do the actual shooting.
Yes, choir boys were sometimes castrated in Europe, but hardly at the same scale as practiced in the Islamic world (or, to preserve the letter of the law, “enroute” to the Islamic world). The barbaric past was, well…., barbaric.
Slavery is now condemned in the West but is not similarly condemned in Islamic nations. Yes, it still occurs in the West – just as murder, theft, assault and arson still occur – but it is illegal and, unlike in Muslim countries, is punished when uncovered.
Ahmed Fares
Jun 23 2024 at 10:52pm
The data point of one is the only data point that matters because that defines the Muslim religion. That’s why Islam has that extensive Hadith literature.
Islam has a wealth tax, 1 part in 40, i.e., 2.5%, and part of it is for freeing slaves. Also, freeing slaves in Islam is an expiation of sins. This gets rid of slavery gradually.
Roger McKinney
Jun 19 2024 at 9:45am
We need to remember that the concept of individual rights came from theologians who distilled them from the Bible. Read Inventing the Individual by Larry Seidentop. The right to property came from Thou shalt not steal and prohibitions of fraud in the Torah. The right to life from Thou shalt not murder. Liberty came from prohibitions of kidnapping. These were rights that the state couldn’t violate. Before theologians codified these rights, individuals had no rights. Only groups had rights and those groups were determined by birth.
Non-Christians accepted those but began to pull more out of their hats, especially socialists. Without the Christian foundation, rights are imaginary constructs. We are returning to the ancient Roman idea that rights belong to groups determined by birth.
steve
Jun 19 2024 at 11:07am
Seems like i have seen hundreds of arguments on what rights mean. I think that rather than argue about them we would all be better off if we had more specific terms that represent the way people actually use them. A good start would be as Richard noted with legal rights and moral rights.
Steve
Jim Glass
Jun 19 2024 at 4:15pm
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
That “self-evident” is an historically great piece of political rhetoric. If these “unalienable Rights” were actually self-evident then in all societies through all time there’d have been many people recognizing them. But near NOBODY did — not the democratic citizenry of ancient Athens, nor the Romans, Mongols, Chinese, major religions, medieval society with its church-backed Divine Right of Kings and obligations of serfs to lords, etc. Nobody. All were very much to the contrary indeed. Plus, of course, there was the universal prevalence of slavery (serfdom, etc.) in near all societies during all time all around the world.
What the authors were really saying is that in light of locally and recently developed Enlightenment ideas, it *should be* self-evident, etc., we’d all be better off, so get on board and join us! Create these rights! Not just in law, but in peoples’ minds and beliefs. Fight!! That’s why it is a *revolutionary* document.
It is a very common rhetorical ploy to present a *big change* as a common sense, even modest and belated action just based on what we all already believe, right? The bad guys do it all the time, destroying rights, setting up wars. Here the good guys did it. Albeit setting up a war.
Jim Glass
Jun 20 2024 at 1:20am
“Rights” may be viewed as adaptive expectations about social behavior. I’m always drawn back to the Gintis quote: “Hunter-gatherer societies are scrupulously egalitarian, but not harmoniously so. They are violently egalitarian.” One may bring back all the meat, but everyone gets a share. That behavior was adaptive as necessary for survival, so probably is rooted in our DNA. (Chimpanzees get violent over distribution too.) We feel it as “a right to fair distribution” (and it is ever with us still).
Of course what’s fair is subject to dispute, thus the “violently egalitarian”. In-group violence is very maladaptive, so such groups form norms about sharing and obligations, which may be deemed “rights”. Great violence can still break out at the family, clan level (see Diamond’s “Vengeance is Ours” piece), so as groups scale up tribes develop customs and leaders who hear disputes, religions develop specifying rights and obligations, states arise and turn them into law, regularizing them.
Rights appear when they are adaptive to society’s functioning, and disappear when they cease to be. The Divine Right of Kings, the right to trial by combat (dueling in the USA) and ordeal, the rights of serfs and lords in relation to each other, were all taken very seriously in their time. They were major contributors to social stability. But no more — so Charles III is not declaring his divine rights and litigants today don’t invoke trial by combat outside of divorce court.
Yes, but what is that something? There are always lots proposed. How to choose? Many have long said “God” determines morality and rights, others believe in “natural rights”. Personally, I don’t trust anybody who hears God talking to him, and mother nature has never talked to me. So I go with materialistic explanations.
Societies tend to adopt behaviors that increase economic efficiency (general wealth) and reduce costly social conflict. It’s just natural selection. In the 20th Century the big successful rights advances were for expanding the franchise, giving women contraception and equal rights to work, full civil rights for African Americans. At the end of the century surely the nation was much better off for all three. But there was social and political resistance to all. The ‘selection pressure’ that built up to overcome resistance was felt emotionally by proponents as a “rights movement”, and the rights have since has been internalized across society. (President Johnson addresses the nation about sending federal troops into Detroit, and other cities across the nation, to suppress race riots — in case anyone doubts the big cost of social conflict that needed to be reduced. I remember that speech, and the riots.)
In this perspective the Loving case was just a step down the road. If you enjoy your sex life you might look at Griswold v. Connecticut and Eisenstadt v. Baird, two more cases that are “Huh?” today, but were Supreme Court worthy then. … The Huemer ‘what-if’ completely assumes a modern ethical framework. If you were in Ancient Greece collecting slaves for the needs of your democratic city state, an unproductive hermit might’ve served just fine to help defend against the Persians by working the silver mines or rowing a trireme.
Jim Glass
Jun 20 2024 at 1:35am
Slavery in its many variations existed in most all societies everywhere all the way back through time. Clearly it adaptively benefitted societal structures. Take ancient Athens, the first real democracy to create a free citizenry with full civic rights and obligations. It also was a full on slave state, from captives worked to death in the silver mines to household slaves and civil servants owned by the state. Aristotle said life could be no other way, because without what we’d call the surplus labor extracted from slaves, there could be no investment in buildings, arts, law courts, education, ships, armies, warfare … Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly, civilizations gotta have slaves.
But as he was a very smart guy he put his finger right on it, saying: ‘slavery must exist until statues do the work of men’, and …
He foresaw the effect of the Industrial Revolution on slavery. Kudos. With the Industrial Revolution and the new political-economics of the Enlightenment fueling each other’s growth, in a then-small but powerfully rising societal system slavery suddenly swung from being adaptive to very maladaptive, and the concept of it being a ‘fundamental violation of human rights’ began to occur to some people…
Roger McKinney
Jun 20 2024 at 10:07am
You’re right that they aren’t self evident. They came from theologians who distilled them from the Bible. By Jefferson’s day, even atheists had embraced them. But without the Biblical foundation, they don’t make any sense.
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