Categories:
Economics and Culture
Regulation
I was talking to someone on the phone a few days ago and we got into a side discussion about masks. I told her that I hate wearing them. It was hard to tell her attitude.
Then she told me that she had recently taken her 3-year-old grandson into a fast food restaurant in another state. When they got to the door, her grandson realized that he didn’t have his mask and he panicked. She reassured him that he could borrow one of hers.
Then she told me that basically as long as he can remember, he’s had to wear a mask when going out. She said that he basically regards it as part of his wardrobe.
That’s scary and tragic. How long will it take him to recover? And what has he missed in the meantime?
READER COMMENTS
Steve
Feb 20 2022 at 8:33pm
I used to know a 3-year-old who would panic if she ever left the house without her spoon. Kids are resilient—once the adults move on, the kids will be alright.
Jon Murphy
Feb 21 2022 at 1:06pm
Kids are indeed resilient, but that doesn’t undermine the fact that this does represent a tragedy. Kids, given time and care, can overcome just about any trauma. That doesn’t imply the trauma is less traumatic
Ryan M
Feb 21 2022 at 7:43pm
This can only be spoken by someone who is truly ignorant of childhood trauma and abuse. What has happened over the past 2 years to kids goes well beyond tragic.
Michael Sandifer
Feb 21 2022 at 12:18pm
That “tragedy” is a word that would even occur to someone to describe this situation is the best piece of anecdotal evidence yet of the extreme decadence of the current developed world.
When the extremist right and left point to each other and call each other “snowflakes”, they are certainly right, but they ought to be pointing at everyone else in the developed world as well.
Were the young children who never went to the store without seeing their parents using ration stamps damaged by that experience?
In fact, I think the opposite is true. I think examples of sacrifice for the common good might be absolutely essential if we ever hope to again become a republic in anything other than name.
Jon Murphy
Feb 21 2022 at 1:11pm
The example of forced rationing doesn’t make the point you want it to make. In fact, it makes David’s point:
That whole generation was greatly scarred by the experience of the Great Depression. Just for example, my grandparents (who were that age) were relentless hoarders. Indeed, it’s a very robust and well-studies phenomenon that the Greatest Generation were hugely scarred by the experiences of the Depression and WW2. Just like the generation before them were scarred by the experiences of WW1.
zeke5123
Feb 21 2022 at 3:02pm
Adding another anecdote — my grandfather stored money throughout his house because he never really trusted banks or financial institutions. When he did invest, it was in government bonds. Those scars had real world implications on my grandfather.
Michael S Rulle
Feb 21 2022 at 1:23pm
“the common good” is the question at hand—-what if what we call the common good is just foolishness? No one wears masks in NJ —–except children, in school—-describe to our readers how that represents the “common good”?
David Henderson
Feb 21 2022 at 1:49pm
Good point, Michael Rulle,
I took it as given that everyone understood by now that children are at least risk and that the risk to them is tiny. Also, that they don’t transmit much to adults. But I guess I should always state those background facts for people who don’t know them.
Todd Moodey
Feb 21 2022 at 2:58pm
David–
For the reasons you cite in this comment and in the original post, kids should have been the first segment of the population relieved of the masking requirements (if indeed they should ever have been subject to them). But if you add to this that whatever effectiveness masks possess is undermined by the the manner and care with which kids wear them, the situation becomes truly absurd.
Regards,
Todd
Michael Sandifer
Feb 22 2022 at 12:39am
As it turns out, much of the mask wearing forced on kids, particularly in recent months, has been excessive, but this was not necessarily the case earlier in the pandemic, when less was known about Covid-19 in general, and various strains in particular, and pre-vaccine.
My point is that, at the very least, the burden of proof of consequences of forcing kids to wear masks rising to anything like a reasonable definition of “tragedy” is certainly on the one making the claim. What I find far, far more disturbing in this crisis is the ignorant narcissism that precludes social cooperation, some of which, at times, must be orchestrated by the government.
A country is not an archipelago of “I’s”. Sometimes, much more often than many seem comfortable with, we have to be a “we”, organized by government, however untrustworthy or incompetent.
WW2 could not have been won without top-down leadership. The interstate highway system required government. Top-down programs have led to disease eradication.
There is such a thing as public goods and obvious common interests. If this had been a much deadlier pandemic, we would not see such resistance to cheap, common sense precautions. We’d probably see overreaction in the opposite direction, as the same cowards who would resist sacrifice in war would readily surrender all their freedoms to likewise avoid any reasonable expectation of death.
Jon Murphy
Feb 22 2022 at 8:11am
Michael-
Be careful here, because you have a lot of improper comparisons.
First: COVID is nothing like a war. They are very different things. To the extent war requires mutual sacrifice, it is of a different matter than the mutual sacrifice of every day occurrences like a pandemic. To the extent war requires coordination, it is of a very different kind of coordination. Pandemics are not the political existential the way war is.
Second: as a matter of fact, it is incorrect to say “Top-down programs have led to disease eradication.” In fact, some disease eradication (like smallpox and polio) occurred despite town-down programs, not because of them. In both the case of smallpox and polio, the eradication happened because doctors ignored top-down directives and relied on bottom-up programs. Furthermore, you need ideal conditions to eradicate disease. There’s a reason only 2 have been eradicated in human history. COVID does not fit the conditions.
Third: It is improper to make a stark contrast between “an archipelago of “I’s”” and “a “we”, organized by government.” Neither case is ideal nor descriptive of reality. Liberal society has long been built on the idea of mutuality outside of government (see Adam Smith in Theory of Moral Sentiments or Wealth of Nations. See also FA Hayek’s Constitution of Liberty). People mutually adjust all the time, often taking into account each other’s well-being into our own decision-making (see James Buchanan’s Cost and Choice. For evidence of this occurring during COVID, see Austan Goolsbee and Chad Syverson’s paper Fear, Lockdown, and Diversion or Casey Mulligan’s paper The Backward Art of Slowing the Spread). I agree there “is [sic] such a thing as public goods and obvious common interests.” And they are obvious. That’s why people take them into account in their decision-making and government action is more often than not harmful.
JoeF
Feb 21 2022 at 8:02pm
Sacrifice for the common good? Even perfectly-worn N95 respirators only offer partial protection from airborne Covid, one time (they must be recharged). No mask worn by a two or three year old ever protected the child or anyone else from Covid. The child might as well have been forced to wear a rosary.
Michael Sandifer
Feb 21 2022 at 12:21pm
I should have referenced WW2 above, regarding ration stamps.
I’ve often wondered how our present panicky culture would react to the US being pushed out of the Philippines, for example, with 75,000 of our troops taken prisoner, with half of them killed on a death march.
We were once a stronger people.
Jon Murphy
Feb 21 2022 at 1:08pm
Given the reaction of the United States government was what amounts to a war crime, I’m not sure “stronger” is a good adjective.
alvincente
Feb 21 2022 at 4:57pm
Jon – OK, you and Michael have wandered onto a tangent, but if you referring to the strategic bombing of Japan (in which the nuclear bombs incurred only a small minority of the casualties) as “war crimes,” then we should all be highly grateful that those crimes were committed, since the consequent surrender prevented what would almost beyond a doubt have been millions of additional deaths in Japan, China, Indonesia, Malaya, Burma, Indochina, Korea and various Pacific Islands, where the forces of Japan had shown themselves willing to fight to the death and massacre civilians as they were doing so.
Having said that, I do agree that this particular war was an incredibly savage one with all sides taking steps that we recoil from today, and would have recoiled from beforehand.
Jon Murphy
Feb 21 2022 at 5:15pm
A couple of quick points:
First: Yes, the war was horrific and it certainly has left a scar on humanity.
Second: I used to think along the same lines as you, that the bombings were necessary to prevent millions more deaths. That is, after all, the cold calculus of war. But more recently, I have come around that such a view is incorrect. There is mounting evidence that the Japanese were willing to surrender, but they did not like some of the terms the US wished to impose. The bombings were not necessary to end the war or prevent more deaths.
Third: It’s one thing to target military targets. It’s a whole other to target civilian and other non-combatant targets.
That’s just my two cents. I don’t really want to go down this tangent much further. Rather, I was just noting with wry humor that Michael used the adjective “stronger” to describe the overcompensation of the US in World War 2.
Luke J
Feb 21 2022 at 6:43pm
The tragedy is people dying who didn’t need to die.
I have three kids: 9, 7, and 1.5. None of them are “traumatized” by wearing masks ( the baby is not required to wear one in Oregon).
Maybe some parents’ hysteria is creating fear in their kids. Those are bad parents.
Once upon a time, people were expected to wear hats outside. Most everywhere, people are required to wear pants even though there is no harm to anyone by appearing naked in public.
Jon Murphy
Feb 21 2022 at 7:57pm
A needless death is a tragedy, but not all tragedies are needless deaths. A tragedy is anything that causes distress. It is clear from the story that the kid is indeed distressed here.
That’s not really the same, now is it? You cannot compare a custom to which everyone agrees to with something that was forced upon unwilling people at the literal point of a gun. Adopting something voluntarily is not the same as coercion even if they are superficially the same act.
Luke J
Feb 21 2022 at 8:41pm
Here I will disagree with you. While I accept that distress is more severe than normal stress, I would not call it tragic. Also, maybe grandma is a little hyperbolic relating her story to D. Henderson. People exaggerate, and stories like this should always be taken with a grain of salt.
I am not read enough to know whether or not mask wearing has any measurable effect at lowering the spread of Covid-19. I am skeptical, but I cannot say with confidence. But far more people have been imprisoned and/or fined for public nudity than failing/refusing to wear a mask. Even today, cities have laws against women breastfeeding in public. They can’t feed their babies in public, and yet somehow mask mandates are being compared to Nazi Germany. It’s a ridiculous position, and by that I mean worthy of ridicule.
Luke J
Feb 21 2022 at 9:50pm
While I accept that distress is more severe than stress, I disagree that any distress is tragic. Also, I find parents and grandparents to embellish when talking about their kids and grand kids. We should take this story with a grain of salt.
I am skeptical of the efficacy of mask wearing and I certainly care little for the State’s self-appointed power to mandate the wearing of such. On the other hand, far more people have been fined and/or imprisoned for public nudity/indecency than failure to wear a mask. Even into the 21st century women could be prosecuted for breastfeeding in public. They can’t feed their baby in public, yet it’s mask mandates that are drawing comparisons to Nazi Germany. I find the position ridiculous.
JFA
Feb 22 2022 at 9:54am
The tragedy here is not that the kids have been forced to wear masks (that’s only the tip of the iceberg). The tragedy is that kids have been the first group to be affected by NPIs (school closures, masks, etc.) and the last group to have those NPIs lifted. For many kids in the US, it wouldn’t be until the spring of 2021 when schools opened, while bars, restaurants, and gyms in those same communities were open for business in August of 2020. Mask mandates for public spaces were lifted in many places… except for schools. In the most recent round of announcements from New York, Illinois, and California, statewide mask mandates are being lifted… except for schools (even though all school-aged children can be vaccinated).
And don’t fool yourself into thinking that there was so much uncertainty that we had to do all these things. Many countries in Europe didn’t close down schools for multiple months, let alone the year or more they were closed in the blue parts of the US. And while the CDC says we should mask kids 2 and older, many European countries didn’t mask young children below 12 at all. Children have always been at less risk for severe disease and always spread it less than adults. This is something that started being noticed in April of 2020. And it has become increasingly clear that masking school aged children does not actually reduce case rates either in children or in the wider community. And it has been clear for a while that the mortality and morbidity risks to children from Covid are on the same order as RSV (for which there is no vaccine) or seasonal flu (for which ~65% of children are vaccinated each year).
The tragedy is that in many places in the US (including the little liberal enclave that I live in), adults who should know better have told children that they have had to do all these things that are not required of adults because the kids could get their friends and parents and grandparents sick. I’ve seen kids (of religiously-mask-wearing parents who righteously hate Trump and don’t have a bad thing to say about the CDC) break down in tears because they thought they might have gotten a friend sick.
No… kids wearing masks is not the tragedy… adults who put themselves first and treat children like an afterthought are the tragedy.
David Henderson
Feb 22 2022 at 11:25am
Well said, JFA.
This certainly is a bigger tragedy.
Michael Sandifer
Feb 23 2022 at 1:04am
JFA,
Your comments seem mostly fair, but my point remains. And, frankly, even most of the extreme negative consequences of the Covid pandemic in the US are first world problems.
Most Americans should consider living in a country like the Philippines, for example, during this pandemic, during which “lockdowns” were much more extreme and much more costly for a much poorer economy, mostly without government support. They don’t have the ability to spur record saving and consumption rates during a pandemic.
Okay, so some kids missed some school and missed out on some social interactions and had to wear masks at times. Kids in some other countries don’t even attend school, or only attend school for a short time, before working for a living.
It was only roughly a century ago that most Americans didn’t even attend high school, much less graduate. My Great Grandmother was living with her husband at age 13 and had her first child at age 14, after having left school. That wasn’t unusual back then.
True, we don’t know the total social toll our unnecessary precuations regarding children have taken, but I personally think we have far bigger things to worry about.
I don’t give a damn about the people complaining about wearing masks.
JFA
Feb 23 2022 at 10:14am
“It was only roughly a century ago that most Americans didn’t even attend high school, much less graduate.”
This point is only relevant if nothing else about the world had changed.
“And, frankly, even most of the extreme negative consequences of the Covid pandemic in the US are first world problems.”
Suicide attempts among adolescents were up dramatically from pre-covid numbers (this occurred in both France and the US… and I would imagine other places as well). I understand that life is tough in lower income countries, but I’m not sure I’d make the distinction between 1st and 3rd world problems when suicide is involved. Sometimes problems that exist in the 1st world are legitimate problems, even if they don’t entail teetering on the edge of subsistence.
“I personally think we have far bigger things to worry about.”
I do to… but this whole masking kids for the sake of public health theater seems like an easy one to solve. That kids are put at the back of the line suggest that we should worry about it at least a little bit. I also don’t think the relevant alternative to ignoring the issue of senselessly masking kids is actually solving a bigger problem. All those parents who are complaining about other people’s kids not wearing mask are putting lots of energy into this issue as well, and I don’t think they would be putting that energy into solving world hunger or creating better water purification systems if only those stupid anti-maskers would just listen to “the science”. My relevant alternative to not focusing on this issue is just going about my life as normal and only mildly questioning the intelligence of the people running my kids’ schools.
“I don’t give a damn about the people complaining about wearing masks.”
I don’t either… but I do care about children and treating them with respect and care. I think having adults in charge who can’t make sensible decisions is a problem worth worrying about.
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