Free Speech is Needed for All Speech

 

Update below on big error on my part re Tom Palmer.

For fairly obvious reasons, I’ve been thinking a lot about free speech on campuses, whether at government universities or private universities. The issues differ, of course, because private universities are not constrained by the First Amendment or state constitutional rules that require free speech.

For now, I want to consider private universities. Like many people, probably most people who watched, I was appalled by presidents Claudine Gay of Harvard, Liz Magill of Penn, and Sally Kornbluth of MIT when Congresswoman Elise Stefanik asked them fairly straightforward questions and they answered as if they had “lawyered up,” which they actually had. But I had to think through why I was appalled. And I came to a conclusion very much at odds with my initial reaction.

The Misreporting

First, I’ll point out how badly some in the press–print and electronic–have misrepresented what happened. I’ll deal with that briefly before going on to the issue at hand.

Exhibit A of the problem is Jennifer Rubin. In her December 9 Washington Post column, titled “University presidents flunk the humanity test,” she stated:

“That was an unacceptable statement from the president of Penn,” [Pennsylvania governor Josh] Shapiro said in response to Magill not condemning calls for genocide. “Frankly, I thought her comments were absolutely shameful. It should not be hard to condemn genocide.”

Granted that Rubin is quoting someone else but it’s clear from context that she agrees. Here’s the problem: Magill was never asked to condemn calls for genocide. I hope she would have condemned such calls if asked, and I hate to say this, but I’m not sure she would have. But that’s not what she was asked. She was asked the narrower question of whether such calls “violate Penn’s rules or code of conduct” or “constitute bullying or harassment.” And she did a decent job.

Here’s part of the transcript:

STEFANIK: Ms. Magill, at Penn, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Penn’s rules or code of conduct? Yes or no?

MAGILL: If the speech turns into conduct, it can be harassment. Yes.

STEFANIK: I am asking, specifically calling for the genocide of Jews, does that constitute bullying or harassment?

MAGILL: If it is directed and severe, pervasive, it is harassment.

STEFANIK: So the answer is yes.

MAGILL: It is a context-dependent decision, congresswoman.

STEFANIK: So calling for the genocide of Jews is, depending upon the context, that is not bullying or harassment. This is the easiest question to answer. Yes, Ms. Magill. So is your testimony that you will not answer yes? Yes or no?

MAGILL: If the speech becomes conduct. It can be harassment, yes.

Freedom of Speech

I won’t bother reporting the other parts of the interaction. The major excerpts are in Valerie Strauss, “How Harvard, Penn, MIT leaders answered–or skirted–questions on antisemitism,” Washington Post, December 6.

Here’s the problem. While you might get the impression that these 3 presidents believe that anything goes in speech as long as it doesn’t escalate to action, that seems to be false. I don’t know the MIT or Penn stories as well, but I have been following Harvard for some time. The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE), which began as the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, and to which I have donated annually for almost 20 years, tracks respect for freedom of speech on campus. In its latest rankings, Harvard is #248 out of 248 universities and colleges that FIRE ranks. Not good.

I want to caution, though, that the FIRE site gives some bottom-line data without telling us enough to judge the data. For instance, one component of the ranking is whether students feel comfortable expressing unpopular views. That’s a bit of a squishy criterion. When I’m around some of my friends who are less concerned than I am about innocent people being killed in Gaza, I sometimes hold back. Part of it is that I don’t want to sound like a broken record; part of it is that, because of past reactions I’ve gotten, I don’t always feel “comfortable” expressing that view. But are my potential listeners hurting my freedom of speech? Hardly. What I would want to know is what happens if the students do express their views. Do people chant at them, follow them around campus, make threats? Even the chanting is simply freedom of speech unless it’s a mob chanting and chasing after the person being disagreed with. So I need to know more. But following them around campus and making threats is action and, depending on how far the stalking goes or the threats go, could be grounds for expulsion. If I had been Stefanik, I would asked questions about that.

FIRE does give some objective data. If you go to their background on Harvard, you see the categories “Student Sanctions,” “Scholar Sanctions,” and “Speaker Disinvitations.” If you click on those items, you see the explanation that this datum is the number of times the particular thing happened in a 4-year period from 2019 to 2023. My prior had been that there were many such things. It turns out, though, that the number of student sanctions was 1.0, the number of scholar sanctions was 4.0, and the number of speaker invitations was 2.0. All of these are bad. How many such actions does it take for Harvard’s administration to communicate to students and faculty that certain views and certain speakers will not be tolerated? Probably not many. Still, what struck me was how few incidents FIRE found in each of those categories.

I thought that I had heard of many such incidents, so I googled to find them. I didn’t find much. Of course, Harvard, with its deep pocket, can hire people to go on the web and make it hard to those incidents to show up. I did find one thing that’s close and one that seems like a clearcut retaliation against two faculty members.

The one that’s close is a 2017 story by Hannah Natanson from the Harvard Crimson, the student newspaper, titled “Harvard Rescinds Acceptances for At Least Ten Students for Obscene Memes.” Natanson writes:

Harvard College rescinded admissions offers to at least ten prospective members of the Class of 2021 after the students traded sexually explicit memes and messages that sometimes targeted minority groups in a private Facebook group chat.

Judging whether that crosses the line into a restriction of freedom of speech is complicated. On the one hand, the Harvard administrators are communicating what they will tolerate, and their tolerance is low. On the other hand, the “students” were not yet Harvard students. I would want to see the contractual commitment that Harvard had made in initially accepting these students. My guess is that Harvard’s lawyers were smart enough to set it up so that Harvard did not breach a contract.

The clearcut retaliation was in 2019, with Harvard’s announcement that it would not renew faculty members Ronald S. Sullivan Jr. and Stephanie Robinson as faculty deans of Winthrop House. That followed a number of student protests. The students objected to Ronald Sullivan’s decision to be one of the lawyers defending Harvey Weinstein. It seems clear from context that the Harvard administrators objected to his decision to exercise his freedom of speech in defending Weinstein.

None of this is good. It’s just less bad than I had expected.

Russ Roberts, Niall Ferguson, and Tom Palmer

In his latest EconTalk episode, an interview with the Hoover Institution’s Niall Ferguson, Russ Roberts states:

But, I want to see if you share this insight I heard from Tom Palmer of the Cato Institute and the Atlas Network, which I used to disagree with. This is where I’m a little less of a fundamentalist. He argued that when a group–a group, not an individual–when a group advocates for a movement that would eliminate free speech, that is the Communists. For a Soviet communist marching in the 1970s or 1980s, or a Nazi, say, marching in Skokie or trying to march in Skokie, a Jewish neighborhood, a highly Jewish neighborhood outside of Chicago. Tom argued that if this group does not believe in free speech for others, they should not be able to use the protection of free speech to advocate their agenda. And, I used to disagree with that. That’s where I’m a little more open to restrictions.

I think that’s a very bad idea. How do you get discussion? It’s possible that some people in the group could be persuaded otherwise but, not having the protection of free speech, will shut up. That sounds similar to what FIRE reports about students at Harvard.

There’s another more fundamental problem. I won’t put this on Russ because he seems to be considering the idea rather than advocating it. But I will pose it to Tom Palmer and others who agree with them. The problem is that they have just argued against their own freedom of speech. After all, they advocate eliminating free speech for some subset of people. If I understand their proposal correctly, they should not, therefore, have the protection of free speech. Are they sure they want to undercut their own free speech. I have known Tom Palmer since he was 17. He’s a smart, articulate, and passionate defender of freedom in all its dimensions. He makes his living speaking and writing. Would he want to advocate something, that if followed, would put that living at risk?

Update:

The above about Tom Palmer generated a response from him. Tom says that Russ misremembered something that happened about 25 years ago. When I asked him to explain, he did. Here’s his explanation:

As to what I thought then, whenever that was, and what view I have now, which I doubt changed much, if at all, I would summarize while sitting in an airplane seat dictating to my cell phone as follows.

An expression of opinion is certainly not normally properly restricted by law, but when an opinion is a part of a threat to other people, and that threat is credible and represents the present danger, then people have the right to respond in self-defense. The national socialist party was properly and correctly banned in Germany and other countries after the war. it was a colossal criminal enterprise that murdered millions. There was no obligation to let them re-organize in order to take over again. I would say the same about the communist party at the end of the USSR when Boris Yeltsin tried to disband it, as well.

That is a very different matter from a group of malevolent kooks marching through a town in Illinois , where their presence, hateful and despicable as it was, was not a credible threat to anyone living there.

Burning a cross on your farm as a part of a racist cult event is not normally a credible threat that warrants restricting it by law, unless the KKK is also lynching people or intimidating them with such threats. Black people understand — and feel — well what the KKK would do to them. They didn’t just express repugnant opinions; they killed people. If David Duke can find people to invite him to talk about how he is superior to, say, Thomas Sowell, he has the right to speak and even to express the absurd opinion that Sowell should be Duke’s slave, but wearing a hood and burning crosses to drive Sowell out of his home is not the same.

Threats are generally expressed with speech, but it does not follow that the 1st Amendment or a general policy of liberty of speech protects threats.

Had I more time and something other than my phone on a flight, I might explain my rather common-sense and unremarkable view with more nuance, but it should be clear that I do not believe that people who oppose free speech should be banned from speaking.

I think, by the way, that property rights handle the “burning the cross on your farm” issue. You own the farm. Just as that means that no one has the right to dump garbage on your farm, it also means that no one has the right to burn a cross on your farm.

READER COMMENTS

Jon Murphy
Dec 15 2023 at 4:20pm

I think that’s a very bad idea. How do you get discussion?

I think your question is important because discussion is vital to improving understanding even if one of the discussants is low quality (ie bad faith, bad information etc).  There is no lemon problem; bad info doesn’t drive out the good.  Rather, bad info draws in the good.

Take, for example, Nancy MacLean.  Back in 2017, MacLean published a book called “Democracy in Chains,” which was not much more than a conspiracy theory dressed up as serious scholarship.  Naturally, there were multiple scholarly papers published in multiple disciplines by many scholars that debunked her claims (full disclosure: one of my first jobs as an RA was collecting historical data and checking her sources for one of these debunking papers).  There have been some attempts to defend her thesis, but nothing really substantial and most of it argued poorly by those defenders.

So, even though MacLean’s thesis is widely considered bunk in academic circles, many good things did come from it.  Through the process of refuting her claims, substantial research has been done on the University of Virginia in the 1960s, segregation in VA more generally, the life and thought of many midcentury scholars, legal thought during segregation, etc.  This research may never have been done if it weren’t for the purposes of debunking her claims.  Thus, even though MacLean et al provided low quality information, the amount of high quality information in the market increased.

Free speech is needed for everyone, not just those we agree with.  Discussion, like market competition, increases quality and quantity avalible.  To quote AEI economist Mark Perry: Competition breeds competence

Mactoul
Dec 15 2023 at 8:15pm

Was discussion in Weimar Germany improved by free airing of Nazi theses concerning Jews?

Jon Murphy
Dec 16 2023 at 6:08am

Yes, I’d say so. We got some of the best anti-fascist, anti-nationalist, anti-totalitarian, pro-liberal writings come out of that period from people like Mises, Hayek, Bonhoeffer, etc. Unfortunately, the Nazis still eventually came to power, but free speech wasn’t the issue.

Procrustes
Dec 16 2023 at 7:58pm

It’s not that clear that the Nazis had free rein in Weimar Germany.

From FIRE:  “There is no correlation between the enforcement of hate speech laws and the reduction of intolerance. For example, both during the Weimar Republic and in recent decades, Germany has strictly enforced strict hate speech laws. Yet Hitler and his Nazi party rose to power during the Weimar period, and today’s explicitly racist AFD party has grown dramatically in the recent past. Both periods saw disturbing upsurges in violence against Jews and other minority groups”

 

https://www.thefire.org/news/blogs/eternally-radical-idea/hate-speech-laws-backfire-part-3-answers-bad-arguments-against

Daniel Greco
Dec 15 2023 at 7:35pm

I’d have a look at the cases of Tyler VanderWeele: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590113323000226

and Carole Hooven:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-022-02467-5

In neither case were they fired; they’re not clear-cut cases of the Harvard administration supressing speech. But I do think, if you read the accounts linked above, it’s pretty hard to come away thinking the administration handled them well. I don’t think either case would show up in a FIRE database, but they still seem to me pretty clear examples that illustrate Harvard’s lack of a culture conducive to the free and open exchange of (certain) ideas.

David Henderson
Dec 17 2023 at 12:09pm

Thanks, Daniel. I haven’t found time to read those yet–see my response to BC for why–but hopefully I’ll get to them today.

BC
Dec 16 2023 at 6:39am

“Judging whether that crosses the line into a restriction of freedom of speech is complicated….I would want to see the contractual commitment that Harvard had made in initially accepting these students”

Why would a contractual commitment be relevant in assessing whether someone’s speech is restricted?  If Harvard’s contract with students is that their acceptances can be rescinded or they can be expelled for unacceptable speech, then that would still seem to be a restriction of freedom of speech.  Simply giving someone fair warning that their freedom of speech is restricted does not change the fact that their freedom of speech is restricted.

David Henderson
Dec 17 2023 at 12:08pm

You wrote:

Why would a contractual commitment be relevant in assessing whether someone’s speech is restricted?  If Harvard’s contract with students is that their acceptances can be rescinded or they can be expelled for unacceptable speech, then that would still seem to be a restriction of freedom of speech.  Simply giving someone fair warning that their freedom of speech is restricted does not change the fact that their freedom of speech is restricted.

Good question. I think you’re right. My economist’s thinking leads me to thinking about enforcement of contracts. But you’re right that that’s not relevant to the issue of freedom of speech.

Please pardon the delay. I had the cold from hell on Saturday and spent the whole day in bed.

steve
Dec 16 2023 at 10:48am

I discovered FIRE well after you did but have been contributing since then. They do good work I think. Wife and I went to one week conference this summer on free speech. Had a mix of liberals, Trump supporters and even one whom I think was probably libertarian in orientation. Have also been reading off and on Mchangama’s book on free speech. I think the conclusion is hard to avoid that every attempt to restrict free speech has largely backfired and eventually harmed those that wanted to be protected. While I actually agree with those who complain that free speech has been weaponized I cant think of any solution that wouldn’t cause more harm.

I believe the reason you think there were many fewer events than you expected is because they get amplified in the media. The media rerun the same stories for years making it sound worse than it really is. You are also correct, I believe that some of what FIRE uses as metrics is pretty soft. The other part that I wish they would do, I wrote them about this, is also publish a metric that looks not only at negative events but also positives. Which university is most likely to invite as speakers or hire people viewed as holding beliefs that conflict with most of their staff or students.

I thought that the presidents largely answered the questions, as asked, correctly. However, they were in a political arena being asked questions by a politician in front of media. Honest answers would have to include nuance and that totally killed them. They really needed a PR person answering the questions and giving them weaselly, politically correct answers.

Anyway, kudos to you for writing this. It’s not a popular stance.

Steve

Thomas L Hutcheson
Dec 16 2023 at 11:52am

I’d say it goes beyond universities needing to respect “free speech.”  Part of the value of a university is to expose students to points of view that they may find disgusting or threatening.

Ben Y
Dec 17 2023 at 12:01am

Regarding the last paragraph, I think you are being a bit disingenious.

I think we can take it for granted that some speech can be universally condemned. (Yelling fire in a crowded theater.)

I think Russ’ concern is centered around the ability to ‘hack’ into a freedom and thus destroy it. If a party runs for elections with an open agenda to never have elections again, should they be allowed to run?

I think it’s definitely worthy of thought.

Jon Murphy
Dec 17 2023 at 10:46am

I think we can take it for granted that some speech can be universally condemned. (Yelling fire in a crowded theater.)

There’s a difference between something being condemned and being illegal.  Yelling fire in a crowded theatre can be condemnable speech, but it is not actually illegal.  Cheating one one’s spouse is condemnable, but it is not illegal, etc.

If a party runs for elections with an open agenda to never have elections again, should they be allowed to run?

I don’t think that’s a free speech issue (though I may be wrong).  Not everyone can run for office (convicted felons, insurrectionists, foreign nationals, foreign born individuals, etc).  A party that ran explicitly on the goal of overturning the Constitution may not be allowed to run (although, again, I am not sure).

Jim Glass
Dec 17 2023 at 7:53pm

“Yelling fire in a crowded theater.”

Contrary to the popular misconception, free speech-wise one is entitled to yell “Fire!” in a crowded theater as much and often as one wants. Though one may receive a nuisance violation for doing so, or be sued for damages by all injured in a resulting stampede.

The yelling-in-a-theater thing goes back to a piece of dictum by the great Holmes in a World War One draft case. To the extent it ever meant anything it was expressly over-ruled in the 1960s. Not Holmes’s best day, though not his worst (the business of baseball can’t be a monopoly because it is sport — forced sterilization are necessary to save the nation from being “swamped with incompetents … three generations of imbeciles are enough”.

AMW
Dec 17 2023 at 7:07am

But I had to think through why I was appalled. And I came to a conclusion very much at odds with my initial reaction.

Curious to know what you concluded about why you were appalled.  For me it’s the double standard. For years these universities have been claiming that speech is a form of violence (but so is silence) when the speaker is white, especially if the speaker is also male and heterosexual.  They have also been saying for years that the content of the speech is not what’s important; it’s the subjective impact on the listener.

But apparently speakers of color can call for genocide without necessarily violating the universities’ policies. Such speech is not definitionally violence and the subjective feelings of the Jewish listeners are immaterial.

David Henderson
Dec 17 2023 at 12:11pm

You’ve correctly identified why I was appalled.

As I explained in my original post, though, I thought I would find more evidence.

Jim Glass
Dec 17 2023 at 7:15pm

STEFANIK: Ms. Magill, at Penn, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Penn’s rules or code of conduct? Yes or no?
MAGILL: If the speech turns into conduct, it can be harassment. Yes.

If calls for genocide turn into actual genocide, then Penn’s rules of conduct are violated. Got it. Gee whiz, I wonder how that didn’t come across well!

STEFANIK: I am asking, specifically calling for the genocide of Jews, does that constitute bullying or harassment?
MAGILL: It is a context-dependent decision, congresswoman.

Here Stefanik missed an opportunity to torture the presidents. Instead of going all outrage, she could have posed empathetic for a few minutes, “OK, I can understand that. Now I am going to ask the same question again. Does specifically calling for the genocide of trans people constitute bullying or harassment only if it turns from speech into conduct, as a context-dependent matter? … Does specifically calling for the genocide of gays … Does specifically calling for the genocide of Native Americans…” Let Magill and the girls answer those questions before their campus constituencies, and on the record before the world, then go the outrage route.

they answered as if they had “lawyered up,” which they actually had.

I take this as an insult to myself and all my legal brethren. No competent lawyer would ever allow such words to be said to lay persons, a jury, the general public. Written in an appeals brief, perhaps. The fact that these great university leaders, and their mega-intellect support staffs with all their PhDs, all together believed this was effective “lawyering up” suggest a group cognitive disorder running through the leadership ranks our top universities.

Extending to the Boards who appoint them, which also seem to have adopted a joint PR stance to cover themselves. I’ve seen board members of all three schools say, ‘you have to understand, these presidents are all good people. They have the very hard job of walking a path between different important aggrieved constituencies’. I can understand that, and have some empathy, except … how is one of these important constituencies pro genocide?

As to “free speech”, these universities being private aren’t legally subject to free speech rules as public universities are. And Harvard certainly knows it, as per its dead-last ranking by FIRE. So them invoking the “free speech” defense is total bogus BS. You can’t walk through the halls of your employer or across somebody else’s property proclaiming “death to Jews and gays” without consequences (being fired, evicted, arrested) by claiming ‘I didn’t kill anyone so it’s free speech!’ The private party can do what it wants to you for such an offense.  That goes for these universities. So the question is, why have these great universities voluntarily chosen to permit (and effectively encourage) a “death to Jews!” culture on campus?

Jim Glass
Dec 17 2023 at 8:19pm

He argued that when a group–a group, not an individual–when a group advocates for a movement that would eliminate free speech, that is … a Nazi, say, marching in Skokie or trying to march in Skokie, a Jewish neighborhood, a highly Jewish neighborhood outside of Chicago … if this group does not believe in free speech for others, they should not be able to use the protection of free speech to advocate their agenda

If he wants to cite Skokie as a case supporting his argument, he really should look at what happened in Skokie first. Or he may want to change his example!

I think that’s a very bad idea.

You are right. The Skokie march turned out just fine for the thousands of Holocaust survivors in Skokie, in the end their community wound up very happy that the whole thing happened.

Here’s an excellent short video telling the whole story…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDRXtIsAH54

The First Amendment rules!

David Henderson
Dec 17 2023 at 9:02pm

Thanks, Jim. That’s a great story. I had remembered some of that but there were details I had never known.

Personal story: in 1977, I was in the process of applying for my green card. On the form, IIRC, I was supposed to list every organization that I was a member of. There weren’t many. The main one was the American Economics Association. Because of the ACLU’s courageous stand for freedom of speech, I wanted to join but I feared that that would hurt my chances of immigrating. That was probably a low risk, but why take chances? The week after I got my green card, in October 1978, I joined the ACLU.

Anders
Dec 18 2023 at 7:42am

Given that Russ lives in Israel, I think it is a natural reaction to consider restrictions in this case.

But of course even that is a slippery slope. Watch Fox News, and by now any criticism of Israel is indistinguishable from antisemitism; and harsh criticism is compared to calling for genocide if there is even a sliver of justification. How is that not so different from Harvard dismissing the Weinstein defender, in spirit if not magnitude?

The issue actually made me more radical on free speech. We should have more faith in our ability to condemn the heinous and second guess wild claims on a case by case basis. The other option, consensus by diktat, has not worked out well, no?

Comments are closed.

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