On February 14, I received an email from Alexa DiFrancesco, a producer at the government-funded Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.
She wrote, in part:
I’m reaching out because my team is working on a Canada-US call-in show between 4 and 6pm ET (2pm and 4pm MT) on Sunday, Feb 23rd. It will be carried on NPR, CBC and CBC News Network (radio and television). It’s going to be co-hosted by Ian Hanomansing and Jeremy Hobson.
I’m reaching out to see if you would be available for a 5-7 minute virtual interview with us sometime during this show. This episode focuses on the question “What does Canada as the 51st state mean to you?”
We’re looking for an American voice that disagrees with Trump’s 51st state idea/comments, and we read your piece about why a Canada/U.S. union is a bad idea.
I replied:
Thanks, Alexa. I’m in.
I should warn you, though, that I’m a dual citizen. I grew up in Manitoba. I think of myself as 98% American, the other 2% being when U.S. plays Canada in hockey (NOT ice hockey) as will happen on Sunday.
If that works for you, we’re good.
Best,
David
Alexa replied:
Hi David,
Thank you so much — amazing news! Would you be able to hop on a quick call with me later this afternoon or Sunday morning if that works better to discuss interview details/your perspective?
This call would be to make notes and draft a script for our hosts Ian and Jeremy.
This interview isn’t 100% just yet — one last step is that my senior producer would also have to listen to our call just to make sure your perspective fits what we’re looking for.
Please let me know if that all sounds good — thank you again and I hope you’re having a wonderful day!
Alexa
(PS – only one of us watches Canada/US hockey but it’s great to know you’re supporting Canada LOL).
I like when correspondence gets to be fun, so I replied:
Dear Alexa,
That makes sense. Yes, let’s talk on the phone today. What time? I’m in the Pacific time zone.
Best,
David
P.S. My wife was born in New Jersey. We met in 1981 and married in 1983. When we were watching the final Olympic hockey game between Canada and U.S. in the 2002 Olympics, I started screaming and running around the living room when Canada scored the tying goal. My wife wondered whom she had married. 🙂
Alexa replied with a suggested time and then added:
(That is such a wholesome story and it made my day! Thank you so much for sharing it. 🙂 )
We had the interview, and she recorded it for her senior producer. I’m going by memory here. I didn’t get on the show, and I don’t know if it’s because I said something the senior producer didn’t like. Who knows?
But here are the questions I remember her asking and my answering.
Alexa: What’s your main reason for opposing Canada becoming a 51st state?
DRH: I think competition among countries is good. One way they compete is on taxes, especially corporate taxes. When Janet Yellen was U.S. Treasury Secretary, she tried to help organize a tax cartel among most of the world’s leading countries so that countries would find it harder to compete by cutting corporate tax rates. I want to go the opposite way. I want Ireland to keep their corporate income tax low, for instance, so that other countries’ governments will feel pressure to keep their rates low. [I was going by memory here, but I was right: Ireland’s rate is 12.5%.] Canada as an independent country helps in that competition. [I later checked and, sure enough, even though Canada’s statutory corporate income tax rate is a whopping 38%, they lop off 10 points for some reason and 13 points for some other reason to get it to 15%.]
Alexa: What would you say to people who don’t care much about tax competition?
DRH: I would say that there are other ways countries and governments compete and it’s important to have options. I remember when George W. Bush signed a really bad bill in 2001, the USA PATRIOT Act. The next summer I went up to my cottage in Canada and attended a fireworks display on Canada Day. [That’s on July 1.] At one point they played the national anthem. I had hated it in high school because we had to sing it every day. But I stood and belted it out with a lot of emotion because I was in a country that wasn’t completely under George Bush’s thumb.
Alexa: What would you say to Americans who might be leaning in favor of having Canada as a 51st state?
DRH: My perception is that people with that leaning tend to be disproportionately Republican. I would ask them, “Do you really want a lifetime guarantee of 2 more Democratic Senators?”
READER COMMENTS
Craig
Mar 6 2025 at 6:27pm
Anschluss mit Kanada! Be careful, September is coming, we’re Canadian Goosesteppin’ into Alberta. Foie Gras for everybody.
“Do you really want a lifetime guarantee of 2 more Democratic Senators?”
Of course not, indeed it was most obviously meant as some puerile form of a putdown. After all, everybody knows we’re gonna give the Canucks the Guam treatment, after all I’m from FL we love us our Canadians, they’re like polite versions of New Yorkers, except they don’t vote.
Craig
Mar 6 2025 at 7:11pm
Honestly if it were up to me I think some genuine considerwtion should be given to a Schengen area along with a customs union thiugh the appetite for such at this very moment might be low.
Nick
Mar 7 2025 at 1:36am
How would Canada accept a customs union with a country awash with guns as it is? If anything, Canada needs to tighten border security, not reduce it.
Matthias
Mar 6 2025 at 6:44pm
What gets me about the Anschluss is: wouldn’t you want to add the Canadian provinces as states 51 to 60? Instead of making all of Canada a single state? Canada is already a federal system, might as well make use of that.
But I guess the suggestion of annexing Canada was never serious.
Craig
Mar 8 2025 at 11:47pm
The issue there would be the number of senators. And yes, it would make sense to admit the provinces as states inasmuch as those provinces have the existing organs of government in place. Though of course one could theoretically call Canada the state and the provinces the counties. Whatever post-admission political form exists is just a political question, but any state admitted is admitted on an ‘equal footing‘ that’s the language employed by the Supreme Court.
Brandon
Mar 7 2025 at 12:06am
Adding Canada as the 51st state is a bit of a strawman.
However, for libertarians, adding Canadian provinces as the next few states is a ‘nother ballgame.
Search Google Scholar for “Hayekian interstate federalism” and you’ll see what I mean. Federalism as a foreign policy is way more libertarian than non-intervention, as the later is based on the sanctity of state sovereignty.
David Henderson
Mar 7 2025 at 11:38am
You write:
I disagree. If the most powerful guy in the world, who’s taking on more and more power, keeps talking about it, it’s not clear that it’s a strawman.
You write:
Will do. Thanks for the tip.
Craig
Mar 7 2025 at 1:01pm
I’d say difficult NOT to take DT seriously, but I would suggest not to take DT literally. It was designed to insult and should he be doing that? NO. But I don’t see it as a general threat to annex or invade.
Brandon
Mar 13 2025 at 4:40pm
Ah, good point!
Richard Charles Baker
Mar 7 2025 at 12:38am
I would welcome Canada into the USA, there would be benefits to both, I love Canada and Canadians, but ultimately it’s their choice…
Nick
Mar 7 2025 at 6:44am
I can see why the CBC didn’t pick you to join the show, that sort of discussion is anathema to them.
Just a quick note on Canadian taxation from an accountant: the *federal* rate is 15%, but when comparing to other countries its important to consider the *provincial* rate as well. For example, for companies in Ontario, there is an addition 11.5% tax. So the proper rate is 26.5%, not 15%.
https://www.taxtips.ca/smallbusiness/corporatetax/corporate-tax-rates-2024.htm
Craig
Mar 7 2025 at 2:50pm
Curious what happens with PST/GST? From a US pov I think of ot as sales tax on steroids, indeed I often ship to PO boxes owned by Canadians in places like Port Angeles, WA and I suppose the Canadian crosses frequently enough such that they pick up the item and cross back as if they’ve owned ot all along to evade it.
But curious what happens at company level? Do companies pay that to THEIR vendors?
BS
Mar 15 2025 at 11:25am
GST is a VAT, so everyone pays taxes to their vendors and collects from their buyers and submits reports accounting for the difference (which is what is payable). PSTs may or may not be VATs (I don’t know all of them, and suspect none is really a VAT). Some of the provinces opted into HST (harmonized GST/PST), but (only from memory) the point of that was to not have mixes of items subject to one or the other rather than to also impose VAT structure on PST.
MarkW
Mar 7 2025 at 8:15am
I think competition among countries is good. One way they compete is on taxes, especially corporate taxes.
It’s a mixed bag, though. International borders create the opportunity for tax competition, yes, but they also present more opportunities for trade barriers (as we are now seeing) and nationalist ‘us vs them’ thinking. There is still quite a lot of tax competition between US states (and no possibility of trade barriers) — and the same with the EU, so that may be a better situation overall. Still, though, Canada becoming a US state (or several US states) seems extremely unlikely. I don’t think it was in any way a serious proposal — just a way for Trump to troll the Canadians and throw shade at Trudeau. You’re right, though, that if push came to shove, even the Republicans (or maybe especially the Republicans) wouldn’t want it to happen.
Mike Burnson
Mar 7 2025 at 9:09pm
Trump’s references to Canada as the 51st state are not in any way serious, strictly facetious taunting of Trudeau. This gets back to Salena Zito’s description of anti-Trump v pro-Trump: anti take him literally, not seriously; pro take him seriously, not literally.
BC
Mar 8 2025 at 1:20am
If you don’t think the 51st state references are “in any way serious”, then does that mean you take those references literally and are anti-Trump?
I am (genuinely) curious as to what it would mean to take the annexation threats seriously but not literally. As far as I can tell, “seriously but not literally” is usually just a euphemism to mean something like, “Don’t hold Trump to the same standard as you would everyone else. Don’t penalize him for saying something that someone else would be penalized for — that’s the ‘not literally’ part — but do go out of your way to re-interpret what he says to make him sound good, changing completely the meaning of what he said if necessary — that’s the ‘seriously’ part.” I can see why pro-Trump people would like that phrase if that’s what it means. However, I am open to hearing another definition of “seriously but not literally” if there is one.
David Henderson
Mar 8 2025 at 11:04am
Those are good questions.
David Henderson
Mar 8 2025 at 11:08am
Thanks, Mike. So don’t take him seriously.
That does raise the questions that BC asks. I would be interested in your answers.
One thing I’ve noticed is that people who know Trump personally as much as I do, which is to say, not at all, seem so confident about when to take him literally and when to take him seriously. Where does this confidence come from?
I’ve been following Trump since he went on Oprah in, I believe, the late 1980s or early 1990s. It strikes me, from everything I’ve seen since then, that one of his few sincerely held views about tariffs is that they’re a really good idea. A related view is that when someone in another country sells us something at a low price, that’s a bad deal for us. I’m taking him both literally and seriously, and I have seen no evidence against. Have you?
Craig
Mar 8 2025 at 11:35pm
“seem so confident about when to take him literally and when to take him seriously. ”
My birth certificate says City of New York A-H number 18,267,432
Coley McDonough
Mar 7 2025 at 9:32pm
Why do they keep saying 51 in this wild alternate history discussion. Wouldn’t it be at least 10-15 states if counting the vast territories. Plus how does the US government tell Puerto Rico they can’t be a state if you bring in French speaking Quebec,bilingual New Brunswick and the others?
Craig
Mar 8 2025 at 11:09pm
The number of states is a political question, there is no constitutional requirement that if Canada were to petition for statehood that it must be 1 state or 40 states. I agree it does seem like it would be a relatively large state and it might make some sense to simply stick with the current provinces as being states unto themselves, but Canada’s existing federal system is not binding on a theoretical post-accession political form.
” Plus how does the US government tell Puerto Rico they can’t be a state if you bring in French speaking Quebec,bilingual New Brunswick and the others?”
If PR were to petition for statehood nothing compels the US government to admit PR, fair or not.
Warren Platts
Mar 8 2025 at 3:48pm
David Henderson is right: we don’t need more Democratic senators. However, if, say, Alberta or Saskatchewan wanted to secede from Canada & voluntarily join the U.S. confederated states, I would not be against it.
john hare
Mar 8 2025 at 7:23pm
That’s a sentiment that I could go with. If the people of Canada, or individual provinces, overwhelmingly wanted to join the US, I’d be good with that. Talks of annexation, especially of unwilling territories I have a real problem with. Even if it’s supposed to be a “negotiating tactic”.
Craig
Mar 8 2025 at 11:12pm
I agree I would want to see an actual genuine heartfelt desire backed up with a referendum expressing the consent of a super majority of the population.
“Talks of annexation, especially of unwilling territories I have a real problem with.”
I agree, John, it’d be a crime.
“Alberta or Saskatchewan”
I did see an article about some kind of delegation from Alberta going to Washington. Not sure how much weight to put on that article, but I did read it.
steve
Mar 8 2025 at 8:39pm
As long as we get peameal bacon and quality poutine they are welcome to join us, but not sure why they would.
Steve
Craig
Mar 8 2025 at 11:37pm
Taylor ham and disco fries, Steve!
Its a NJ thing, you wouldn’t understand it. 😉
David Seltzer
Mar 10 2025 at 1:09pm
And NJ “dirty water hot dogs!” Yummmo!
Thomas L Hutcheson
Mar 13 2025 at 9:38pm
What about each province being a state? Renegotiate State/Federal relations in the Northern North American Union. 🙂