The Economist argues that those calling price-gouging laws “communist” are wrong. Three-fourths (at least) of American states, whether dominated by Democratic or Republican governments, have them on the books (“America’s Anti-Price-Gouging Laws Are Too Minor to Be Communist,” April 22, 2024). In my view, those who use the epithet in this instance are rather ignorant or sophistical. Labelling them collectivist, however, is correct.
Communism is a Marx-inspired ideology that relies on collective choices as opposed to individual choices for the regulation of society. (The Chinese government has abandoned Marx but not collectivism, of which it is a standard bearer.) Any sort of price control, including milder and intermittent price-gouging caps, is certainly collectivist but not necessarily communist. Communism is just one form of collectivism.
There are other forms of collectivism including on the right, which explains the many price-gouging laws across American states, plus one at the federal level—the Defense Production Act, often invoked by the federal government including during the (extended) Covid emergency. On both the moderate-left and moderate-right sides of the conventional political axis, price-gouging laws are a manifestation of collectivism with a human face. More extreme collectivist regimes impose more permanent, extensive, and arbitrary price controls.
Opposed to the different shades of left and right collectivism stands individualism—from classical liberalism to the ideal of anarcho-capitalism—where individual choices are privileged to coordinate a spontaneous or autoregulated social order and to define a minimal ethics. One should not be scared of the terms “collectivism” and “individualism”: they define the fundamental alternative in political philosophy.
“Price gouging” should of course put in scare quotes. Your preferred manufacturer or egg farmer is not more of a “price gouger” than your expensive babysitter or your own salary. Producers are happy to accept prices bid up by customers and the latter are happy to have prices bid down by competing suppliers. Consumers are happy to bid up the prices of what they want instead of going without it. Many suppliers are willing to accept lower prices rather than leaving the industry. Nobody is obliged to accept a price proposal, while everybody is forced to accept state interference in his life under fear of punishment. Market-determined prices serve to coordinate individual actions without coercion from authority. Nothing is perfect but voluntary interrelations through private choices are generally preferable to prohibitions and obligations imposed by force.
Anthony de Jasay was a contrarian economist and political philosopher who defined himself as both a (classical) liberal and an anarchist. He expressed the fundamental distinction between collectivism (collective choices) and individualism (individual choices) by defining liberalism as the primacy of the latter; quoting from his book Social Contract, Free Ride):
Liberalism … means a broad presumption of deciding individually any matter whose structure lends itself, with roughly comparable convenience, to both individual and collective choice.
******************************
READER COMMENTS
nobody.really
Aug 29 2024 at 12:18pm
(Emphasis added.)
Ironically, in this sentence I can see at least two meaning for the word individually. Pierre Lemieux emphasizes (as did Jasay, presumably) the idea of favoring the practice of deferring to individuals to make their own decisions, rather than making a decision that is then imposed on all relevant individuals (collectively). Individually refers to the decider.
Alternatively, individually could refer to the topics being decided—whether to address topics one at a time, or collectively. And I find this interpretation especially relevant to the current context.
1: Specifically, I surmise Pierre Lemieux raises the issue of anti-gouging policies because the policy has been proposed by Kamala Harris, a candidate for elective office. Each candidate articulates (with more or less specificity) a list of policies to pursue. When voting for a candidate, voters effectively promote the candidate’s entire list—without having an opportunity to express disapproval of any individual policy on the list—while effectively rejecting contrary policies promoted by rival candidates.
Both Harris and her primary rival, Donald Trump, favor some collectivist policies. Some voters may conclude that Harris’s policies will impose fewer substantive restrictions on individual choice than Trump does; some may reach the opposite conclusion. But no vote will provide an effective vehicle to make an individual choice on policies; voters will make a choice reflecting a collection of factors. Rephrased, even voters that favor liberalism will likely vote for a candidate that favors some collectivism.
2: More specifically, Trump is attacking Harris for failing to address inflation, and suggests that as president he would tamper with the decisions of the Federal Reserve. In contrast, I think the principal way a president can address inflation today is to honor the independence of the Federal Reserve. But I doubt most voters share my view. To speak to these voters, Harris is promoting an anti-gouging policy, similar to those adopted in most states. These policies have proven hard to implement—more symbolism than substance—but may satisfy the voters’ desire for SOME policy designed to moderate inflation.
So here’s the punchline: I favor Harris’s anti-gouging proposal. I don’t disagree with Pierre Lemieux’s (oddly mild) criticism of the policy in the abstract. Nevertheless, I think the only practical consequence of the anti-gouging policy will be to help Harris keep Trump out of office—and keeping Trump out of office is the best way to defend liberalism.
Pierre Lemieux
Aug 29 2024 at 3:41pm
Nobody: “Deciding individually” and “making an individual choice” mean the same. The bundling aspect of political proposals is a different (although related) problem. Note that there is also some bundling in private choices: buying a tailor-made Ford car with a GM engine would be very expensive; but–and this is the main point–nobody will punish you if you decide one way or another, and you are the one who decides.
nobody.really
Aug 29 2024 at 3:49pm
True–but only if you’ve been a very naughty boy (wink, wink).
Craig
Aug 29 2024 at 3:47pm
“More specifically, Trump is attacking Harris for failing to address inflation [which shows very little insight into his own contribution to the inflation genie getting out of the botttle of course], and suggests that as president he would tamper with the decisions of the Federal Reserve. In contrast, I think the principal way a president can address inflation today is to honor the independence of the Federal Reserve. But I doubt most voters share my view. ”
Well, I would be one of those people who historically would’ve supported the independence of the Federal Reserve, but I’m not a believer anymore and that’s their fault, not mine. Now that doesn’t mean that I would hand control of the Federal Reserve over to Donald Trump, Kamala Harris or Leal Brainerd.
“You must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place, oblige it to control itself.“
While an independent Federal Reserve should, in theory, be able to control itself, at the end of the day that experiment has been run and found to be wanting.
The regime is the world’s largest debtor, it cannot be trusted with money or inflation. The solution is to get government out of the money business altogether.
Pierre Lemieux
Sep 1 2024 at 11:50am
Craig: Have a look at my post “A Bad Solution to Very Real Problems.”
MarkW
Aug 29 2024 at 1:22pm
Nevertheless, I think the only practical consequence of the anti-gouging policy will be to help Harris keep Trump out of office
God help us if the idea of grocery price controls is politically popular and will attract more voters than it repels. Ditto the idea of taxing unrealized capital gains.
nobody.really
Aug 29 2024 at 1:37pm
Politically popular? Thirty-eight states have adopted anti-gouging laws; draw your own conclusion. *I* don’t favor these laws–but I try to distinguish between my opinion and majority opinion.
I welcome God’s help, regardless.
MarkW
Aug 29 2024 at 3:19pm
And these laws are bad ideas too, but they’re intended to apply to temporary, emergency situations (such as hurricanes), not prices for common goods in normal times. Not to mention these are state and local laws, not national ones. Let’s not pretend Harris’s proposal is business as usual in any way — it just isn’t.
Jose Pablo
Aug 29 2024 at 1:52pm
Of course, anti-gouging laws are popular … like any “seen” part of any regulation with “seen” and “unseen” effects (so, all regulations).
We know that since 1850 (at least). It should be clear by now: all the hype around majority rule is unjustified (only makes a little sense when compared with authoritarian rule). Neither the skills nor the incentives for it to properly work are there.
The only hope is to reduce the realm of collective choice to a minimum (ideally to zero). Let’s push the 90%+ of the existing politicians into unemployment. And, for the very few issues remaining subjected to collective decisions, get rid of the majority rule and use the unanimity rule instead.
Laurentian
Aug 29 2024 at 2:17pm
Enlightened despotism will work this time I am sure.
Jose Pablo
Aug 29 2024 at 2:19pm
Nah!, too risky …
And I wouldn’t accept the job, anyway
MarkW
Aug 29 2024 at 3:23pm
<i>Of course, anti-gouging laws are popular</i>
I don’t think so — not generally. People do support these laws for emergency situations (e.g. selling essential goods for high prices after a natural disaster) but not for the government setting prices for goods during normal times.
john hare
Aug 29 2024 at 7:04pm
The problem with anti-gouging during emergencies is that there’s less incentive to go above and beyond. A few decades back I remember an individual saying that next hurricane he would have his truck pre-loaded with plywood and shingles. He would be in the damaged area as soon as the roads cleared to double his money. I don’t hear anyone suggesting that idea anymore.
Pierre Lemieux
Aug 29 2024 at 9:22pm
John: Indeed, it is now illegal in most states. I report the case of the 1996 North Carolina hurricane in my review of Anomaly et al.’s PPE book (scroll to p. 66).
MarkW
Aug 30 2024 at 10:24am
Oh, I understand and fully agree that anti-price-gouging laws for emergencies are a bad idea, but those laws being popular doesn’t mean that anti-price gouging laws for the general economy during normal times would be popular. I really don’t think voters in general are that enamored of government control of the economy.
nobody.really
Aug 30 2024 at 11:50am
Maybe not.
Laws differ, but I expect I could advertise a high-priced roof repair buisness today (expecting no business) and maintain my high prices during emergencies (when I would hope to get actual business). This strategy wouldn’t work if I were trying to be a full-time roofer. But if I were simply going into that line of work during periods of high demand (kinda like being a street prostitute or a department-store Santa), I expect this strategy would shield me from a conviction for price-gouging.
Jose Pablo
Aug 29 2024 at 7:10pm
Which kind of price-gouging exists during “normal times”?
Jose Pablo
Aug 29 2024 at 7:22pm
government setting prices for goods during normal times.
This looks more like price controls, and they are very much liked, surprise, surprise!, by the people “benefiting” from them.
For instance, since there are more tenants than landlords, rent control policies would, very likely, be popular … at least before the effects are clear (and never among the landlords).
In any case, whether a law is “popular” or not says very little about its economic (or moral) merits. But says a lot about its probability of being enacted (or at least announced) by POTUS wannabes.
Cochrane and Pierre and some (but not all) of the economists are just preaching to an empty temple.
Corollary: if you are an economist and want to be appreciated/followed by the politicians and/or be “popular”, be a Keynes or a Piketty or any other emphasizing the role of the very visible hand of politicians in driving the economy.
Craig
Aug 29 2024 at 2:03pm
How you frame an issue dictates how many think of it. The VP is trying to get the camel’s nose under the tent by invoking ‘price gouging’ which, in the face of genuine emergencies comports with most people’s sense of ‘fair play’ irrespective of what oje might think of their economic impact. Indeed the government seems to be in a constant state of emergency no less. The government will do many things, take responsibility for inflation is never one of them. (And neither would Trump under whom the expansive QE program began.)
Greedflation is the mantra of the day, the same tropes from the 1970s. Nothing new under the sun. I suppose.
steve
Aug 29 2024 at 4:10pm
37 states have some version of these laws. However, after a brief search I cant find many instances where anyone was prosecuted under these laws. It looks to me like their main purpose was to get someone elected.
Greedflation was not the cause of inflation, but I was surprised that Ryan Bourne’s work showed that 35% of the increase in prices over 2019-2023 went to profits.
https://www.cato.org/commentary/new-nonsense-profit-driven-inflation
Steve
Craig
Aug 29 2024 at 6:50pm
Thanks for the link, Steve, interesting link to peruse.
Pierre Lemieux
Aug 29 2024 at 9:15pm
Steve: I don’t think there were thousands of cases. But The Economist reports at least one case in the story I linked to. In one of the links in my post (to a post of mine), I report at least another one. Note the task forces going after the offenders. Of course, many suppliers did not let buyers bid up prices because they knew the risks. (At the very beginning of the panic, the only way to get masks was to order them from China, where suppliers did not fall under US price-gouging laws.)
Pierre Lemieux
Sep 1 2024 at 11:47am
There were not thousands of prosecutions but millions and millions of threats, as many as the number of unborn children.
Laurentian
Aug 29 2024 at 2:23pm
Classical liberals were individualists unless you were a Catholic or a Barbarian then big government enforcing conformity was good.
David Seltzer
Aug 29 2024 at 2:42pm
Laurentian: I’d be careful of big gov enforcing conformity. In the 19th and 20th centuries there was considerable hostility towards Chinese immigrants. The result was big gov enacting the Chinese Exclusion Act as well as other restrictive laws. Many individuals opposed Chinese exclusion as well as anti- Chinese discrimination. Blacks could not own or rent in Levittown per gov loan guarantees.
Pierre Lemieux
Aug 29 2024 at 3:31pm
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/business/the-egalitarian-tradition-of-economics.html
Laurentian
Aug 29 2024 at 4:14pm
You are aware that the reason that Catholics couldn’t sit in parliament in the first place was due to the classical liberals supporting the Test Act? Not only did John Locke’s patron Lord Shaftesbury support the Test Act but Locke himself was witness to Shaftesbury taking the oath required under the Test Act.
Oh and Cowen ignores Ireland. Quite a few classical liberal liberals like Bright, Spencer and Smiles opposed Irish Home Rule with Bright himself becoming a Liberal Unionist.
Oh and a lot of the Troubles in Ireland were directly the fault of classical liberals themselves thanks to their support of Cromwell and then later William III’s conquests of Ireland and the ensuring repression and dispossession of Catholics.
John Morley, one of the last classical liberals, wasn’t a Liberal Unionist was an Imperialist in India.
Pierre Lemieux
Aug 31 2024 at 8:05pm
Laurentian: (1) Can you give me the name of one classical liberal who voted for the Test Act? (2) Can you give me your definition of classical liberalism?
David Seltzer
Aug 29 2024 at 2:24pm
Pierre: Please see John H Cochrane’s Praise for Price-Gouging on his Grumpy Economist blog. I think the gouging laws fail to account for price elasticity of demand. Price elasticity of demand is about substitutes. If it’s easy to find a substitute product when the price of an alternate product increases, demand will be more elastic. If there are few or no alternatives, demand will be less elastic. Per John’s example of the motel, there were no good substitutes and his demand for shelter was pretty inelastic. Given the exchange with the motel owner was voluntary, I wouldn’t characterize this as “price gouging.” We know from experience, inelastic demand becomes more elastic over time. Harris’s “plan” clearly makes things worse for consumers over a much longer time.
Jose Pablo
Aug 29 2024 at 2:59pm
Speaking of anti-gouging,
The most stunning figure in the 1,171-page federal budget is the cost of keeping a congressman in Washington — $275,000 a year.
Ten years ago, it was less than half that sum.
Overall, Congressional costs since 1953 have risen six times as fast as the rest of the federal budget-from $60,849,479 a decade ago to $147,594,000 for the 1963 fiscal year.
… and certainly, this is an area where we don’t really need a price-driven increase of supply.
Mactoul
Aug 29 2024 at 11:54pm
And who could object to that, Indeed, the above statement could be derived from the Catholic doctrine of subsidiarity.
But the statement leaves open the question whether there are such matters. And also leaves the question of existence of matters whose structure lends itself only to collective choice.
I submit that there are such matters which include the definition of property rights (following Milton Friedman), the criminal and the family laws.
If we agree that there are such matters not amenable to individual choice then the anarchism collapses.
Jon Murphy
Aug 30 2024 at 7:02am
Did you mean to write “anarchism” here? The post and your comment have been about liberalism. The sudden switch in topics seems odd.
Either way, I don’t follow the logic. There are many, many cases daily where people make collective choices that do not involve governments. Families, friends, companies, social organizations, etc all make collective choices without the need for government. The mere existence of these organizations (and the fact they all predate governments by thousands of years) gives lie to your claim.
Of course, one can reasonably argue that there are instances where a collective choice made though a government is most efficient (achieving a desired outcome using the fewest resources possible). That’s very true. But it doesn’t imply that anarchy cannot handle collective choices.
Jose Pablo
Aug 30 2024 at 12:17pm
That’s very true
Is it?
Can you provide examples/citations?
Deep analysis on this topic (I am thinking of Coase now) doesn’t seem to reach this conclusion.
When I was editor of The Journal of Law and Economics, we published a whole series of studies of regulation and its effects. Almost all the studies–perhaps all the studies–suggested that the results of regulation had been bad, that the prices were higher, that the product was worse adapted to the needs of consumers, than it otherwise would have been.
Granted, he, despite these results still wanted to believe, like you do, that collective choice could be efficient. But this was a normative belief we found hard to part with “despite” the facts. But not, by any means, something that could be inferred from his empirical analysis.
Jon Murphy
Aug 30 2024 at 12:34pm
Defense. Justice administration.
Coase would agree. Note the quotation: he’s saying all new regulations, not all regulations in general. Diminishing marginal returns.
Jose Pablo
Aug 30 2024 at 1:02pm
Referring to “justice” and “defense” as “efficient” is certainly striking.
I don’t know. If “defense” and “justice” are the best examples that we can get of “organizing collective issues efficiently” …
In any case, it certainly seems that we are (and that we have been for a long time) well into the diminishing returns space for government action. And, yet, all candidates propose to increase it even further.
Pierre Lemieux
Aug 31 2024 at 1:09pm
Jose: It’s difficult not to agree with your last paragraph. Your penultimate one is different: it depends on what the alternative is. “Efficient” is a situation where nobody loses and some gain, compared to another situation which is the starting or comparison point.
Pierre Lemieux
Aug 30 2024 at 2:27pm
Jon: I think it is more analytically useful to define “collective choice” as a choice made by the collectivity represented by its government, and “individual choice” as a choice made by an individual or by individuals in private organizations. An “individual choice” (roughly the same as a private choice) is voluntary; a collective choice obliges all members of the collectivity. The distinction, which I think is implicit in de Jasay, also has the advantage of being parallel to the distinction between collectivism and individualism. I suspect that (most) economists or would-be who call “public goods” “collective goods” make the implicit assumption that any public good should be produced collectively and coercively.
Jim Glass
Aug 31 2024 at 4:23am
Jose Pablo wrote:
That’s the most stunning figure in federal budget, really??
Anyhow, if you locate your government in a big city, you pay big city prices. If this is the big stunning fiscal priority, we could propose moving the government to maybe Sioux Falls, Wichita, Des Moines, or one of the other bargain living locations.
Though it looks to me like the government is more than recovering its Congressional costs through paying low-ball salaries. Senators and Congresscreatures are paid $174k, with no increases since 2009. That’s real salaries down by a third! Dang, who are you going to attract with pay like that? (Well, Google tells me that’s about the pay of the average bank vice president, although their pay goes up with inflation.)
I’m trying to imagine the market response if any significant business, from Apple or Google on down to a mediocre low-tier bank, announced: “We are capping the salaries of all our leaders, managers and employees at $174k to eliminate waste”. SELL!!! SELL!! SELL!! And none of them have $4.5 trillion of income, $5.5 trillion of assets, and 5,000 nuclear weapons to manage.
Even your favorite pro sports team: “To eliminate waste, all our coaches, scouts, office personnel, and players will be salary capped at $174k.” Expected W-L record after that … 0-what?
But hey, if one wants government by baristas and lunatics, set its salary level to attract AOCs and MGTs. Pay third-world salaries to the governing, get third-world quality government.
Aren’t price controls used to make voters happy just great!!
“Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.” — Menken
Craig
Aug 31 2024 at 10:53am
Politically Harris is in somewhat of a bind because the increase in grocery prices is so obvious it cannot be denied and she has to appear to be doing something about it. She’d surely love to blame Trump and she could actually, but the problem there, again politically, is that blaming Trump runs into the problem that the expansionary monetary policy occurring while Trump was still in office hadn’t filtered through yet, so then she’d also have to blame Biden and she can’t do that, so who is politically expedient to blame? I dunno, Kroger, I suppose. Its somewhat strange in a sense because the grocery stores are low margin businesses in a highly competitive space, so to a certain extent the left targeting the corporate greed laser on grocery stores is actually a bit scary. There does seem to be some blind spot for the Federal Reserve. I’d suggest leftists don’t go after the Fed and all of the expansionary monetary policies is because leftists realize that it enabled government spending. The blame of course needs to be deflected AWAY from government. The government will do many things, take responsibility for inflation is never one of them.
Comments are closed.