
Imagine a criminal justice system with such a high degree of effectiveness that 100% of crimes are immediately solved and 100% of the offenders are incarcerated. What sort of prison population would we expect?
Now imagine the opposite extreme, where 0% of crimes are solved. What sort of prison population would we expect?
I suspect that the answer to the first question is “fairly low” and the answer to the second question is “precisely zero.” In the first case, crime wouldn’t pay, so the only crimes would be crimes of passion—say a jealous husband murdering his wife.
In fact, neither of these scenarios describes the US, which has a prison and jail population of nearly 2 million. There’s a sort of Laffer curve effect with crime, whereby (starting from zero) stricter enforcement of laws results in more people in prison, and then beyond some point fewer people in prison.
In the following, I’ll use murder rates, as the accuracy of other crime data is highly suspect due to spotty reporting.
I was born 1955, a time when the annual US murder rate was about 4.5 per 100,000. It rose to a peak of over 10 per 100,000 around 1980, and then fell sharply in the 1990s and 2000s. It was 6.81 per 100,000 in 2021, and seems to have fallen in 2022 (although the national data is reported with an oddly long lag.)
During the 1960s and 1970s, the US adopted a soft on crime approach that contributed to a sharp rise in the crime rate. We moved to the left on the incarceration Laffer curve, toward a more lenient policy. Despite this softer approach, however, the total amount of incarceration actually increased during the 1970s. Crime rates rose faster than punishment rates declined. In the 1980s, we switched back toward a tougher approach toward crime, and for a time the incarceration rate rose even further. Eventually, crime rates fell and incarcerations also declined. In recent years, places like California have moved back to a softer approach to crimes like shoplifting and car theft. Not surprisingly (except to sociologists), the rate of shoplifting is rising. Eventually, voters will demand a crackdown and incarcerations rates for shoplifting will begin rising again.
Here’s an analogy. It is possible that a central bank would have to raise interest rates in order to reduce inflation. But that does not imply that a low inflation world would be expected to feature high interest rates.
Richard Hanania recently attracted some controversy with this tweet:
This is a pretty bleak vision, and one that I do not share. It’s true that we need more effective law enforcement. But I do not believe that a low crime rate requires incarcerating a large share of the black population. In my view, Hanania is overlooking Laffer curve effects.
America’s incarceration rate was far lower in the 1950s than it is today. And yet the murder rate was also lower (and I suspect the overall crime rate was lower as well.)
If you don’t like comparisons over time, how about comparisons across nations? In the UK, blacks are much more likely to be killed than whites. That might seem to support Hanania’s argument, as most murders occur within a given race. But even if British blacks commit murder at a much higher rate than other British residents, the rate seems to be roughly the same as for whites living in America (around 4 per 100,000). And yet the incarceration rate in the UK is far lower than in the US. Not only is a high level of incarceration not the only solution to high rates of crime, it is not even the only solution to high rates of crime in the black community.
The ideal solution is high rates of incarceration and low levels of incarceration. Punishment so certain that the crime doesn’t get committed. The UK isn’t perfect, but it’s much closer to that ideal than is the US. Indeed it’s closer to that ideal even among the black portion of the British population.
The ideal solution is to have a criminal justice system that is so effective that the incentive to commit crimes falls to very low levels. We don’t need “more incarceration”; we need higher rates of incarceration per offense and much lower total levels of incarceration due to lower crime rates. Ending the War on Drugs might also push us toward that goal. During Prohibition, America’s murder rate soared much higher (during both booms and depressions.) After Prohibition was repealed in 1933, our murder rate plunged much lower, despite very high unemployment.
California has recently seen mobs of young people ransacking department stories. This followed a decision to stop prosecuting so-called “minor crimes” such a shoplifting. But shoplifting is not a minor crime—jaywalking is a minor crime.
California needs to take a much tougher approach to crime. But the ultimate goal should not be thousands of young shoplifters rotting in California prisons, rather the ultimate goal should be to return to the situation where mobs of young people were not raiding our department stores. If they don’t do the crime, they won’t have to do the time.
You might argue that there’s no meaningful difference between what I’m saying and what Hanania is saying, as we both favor a “tough on crime” approach. But his fatalistic vision seems much less likely to lead to the sorts of changes that are actually needed. Hanania implies we don’t have the “stomach” for policies with a “disparate impact”. But our criminal justice policies already have a hugely disparate impact, so he’s clearly wrong on that point. And contrary to popular opinion, voters in black neighborhoods typically do not favor a “defund the police” approach to crime. Many are concerned about their safety and wish more money was spent on protecting their lives and property. I suspect they understand the difference between high rates of incarceration and high levels of incarceration. And they also understand that more police on the streets can reduce crime for any given level of incarceration.
PS. In this post, I’ve focused on how prison can deter crime. But other approaches are likely to be far more effective, including putting more police on the streets and ending the War on Drugs.
PPS. Hanania’s tweet seems aimed at liberals. But he might also have asked how many Americans have the “stomach” to enforce our tax laws (and which political party lacks the stomach to enforce those laws)? How many Americans have the stomach to enforce our laws against trying to interfere in Georgia elections? How many Americans have the stomach to enforce laws on stealing classified documents, or lying to law enforcement officers after the crime is uncovered? I’m not encouraging people to be “woke”, but unconscious bias is a real thing.
PPPS. I’ve ignored the issue of gun control, as it’s orthogonal to my claims here. My argument does not depend on whether gun control is or is not a good idea, or the extent to which it explains the low UK murder rate. Gun control may or may not be wise, but it is clearly not mass incarceration. If you wish to raise the issue of guns, ask whether Americans have the “stomach” to enforce our existing gun laws.
READER COMMENTS
Airman Spry Shark
Aug 20 2023 at 2:57am
One of these things is not like the others; if cops can lie to people to coerce confessions, then it should be legal for people to lie to the cops.
Brandon Berg
Aug 20 2023 at 5:49am
Does the UK actually have a higher arrest-to-crime ratio than the US?
Also worth noting that the UK’s black population, being composed almost entirely of voluntary immigrants and their descendants, is more strongly selected than the US black population, which consists overwhelmingly of descendants of people captured and sold into slavery. Notably, black students in Britain do about as well as white students on the GCSE.
Certainly I would be happy if it turned out that aggressively cracking down on crime reduced crime more by deterrence than by incapacitation, but I’m somewhat skeptical.
Scott Sumner
Aug 20 2023 at 12:00pm
We know that both crime and incarceration were much lower in the 1950s. So obviously it’s not impossible.
Scott Sumner
Aug 20 2023 at 12:05pm
I would add that there is a similarly large gap between murder rates for whites in Britain and America, which presumably cannot be explained by selection effects.
Brandon Berg
Aug 20 2023 at 1:06pm
This document gives some background on the two different reporting systems. One distinction I hadn’t noticed is that the CDC, but not FBI, lumps together negligent homicide with intentional homicide. I wasn’t able to find the FBI’s negligent homicide statistics to determine how much of the difference this explains.
Dylan
Aug 20 2023 at 5:51am
I’ve got no knowledge of the situation but I’m curious what evidence this is based on? If it is true, I wonder how much would be due to the high level of CCTV cameras per capita?
Dylan
Aug 20 2023 at 5:53am
Not sure why the quote button didn’t work on mobile this time.
Brandon Berg
Aug 20 2023 at 5:56am
By the way, the CDC is a better source for homicide data than the FBI. UCR reporting is voluntary, and many jurisdictions do not participate. As a result, the CDC has a more complete count of homicides, and consistently reports a higher homicide rate than the FBI.
The FBI stats might be good enough to get a good sense of trends in homicide even if the actual numbers are incorrect, but changes in participation rates over time might even be distorting the shape of trends.
Scott Sumner
Aug 20 2023 at 12:02pm
Perhaps the difference is due to how justifiable homicides are treated?
Brandon Berg
Aug 20 2023 at 12:58pm
No, aside from the fact that the CDC classifies killing by police as legal intervention rather than homicide, the difference is on the order of thousands of homicides per year, far too many to be explained by a few hundred justifiable homicides per year. In 2019, the FBI reported 16,425 homicides, while the CDC (at the bottom of Table 8 on page 49) reported 19,141.
Interestingly, the CDC also appears to be undercounting deaths from legal intervention, recording only 652 in 2019 compared to the thousand or so compiled based on media reports.
MarkW
Aug 20 2023 at 7:45am
I believe voters in black neighborhoods also want more certain enforcement so that their children will not be tempted to engage in crime. They don’t want criminals to appear to be the ‘winners’ in their communities and lead their young people astray.
Bob
Aug 20 2023 at 8:07am
For every demand curve there is a Laffer Curve.
If solving crimes (like tax revenue) is a good but incarceration (like tax rates) is a bad then this implies the socially optimal position will be left of the incarceration Laffer Curve peak.
Also, Buchanan and Lee have an article on short- and long-run Laffer Curves in the JPE in the traditional tax setting that might be useful for you here.
Andrew_FL
Aug 20 2023 at 9:47am
Solving crimes is not the good, having low crime rates is the good. Which is why it is socially optimal to be to the right of the peak.
It is not good be be solving lots of crimes, because that means a lot of crimes need to be solved!
Scott Sumner
Aug 20 2023 at 12:03pm
Yes, and I fear we are on the wrong side of the incarceration Laffer curve.
BC
Aug 20 2023 at 10:15pm
I might be misunderstanding what you mean by left side of the Laffer Curve, but the optimal side of the Laffer Curve for crimes is opposite that of taxes. For taxes, the bad part is when people aren’t working. For crime, the bad part is when people are committing crimes. For taxes, the left side is where people are working, the right where tax revenues have declined because people have stopped working, disincentivized by high tax rates. One wants to be on the left side. For crime, the left side is where people are committing crimes but incarceration levels are low because criminals are not being incarcerated. The right side is where incarceration levels are low because fewer people are committing crimes, deterred by high incarceration rates. One wants to be on the right side, where fewer people are committing crimes and, as a result, not becoming incarcerated. High incarceration *rates* (as a percentage of crimes committed), low incarceration levels.
Taxes disincentivize something good, work. That’s why one wants to be on the low tax *rate* side of the Laffer Curve. Incarceration disincentivizes something bad, crime. That’s why one wants to be on the high incarceration *rate* side. Also, while one might want to collect a lot of taxes (if one loves government spending), meaning one might have reason to be near the peak of the Laffer Curve, we want low incarceration *levels*, meaning we want to be way on the right side, far from the peak: high incarceration rates, few people committing crimes, and low incarceration levels.
BC
Aug 20 2023 at 10:27pm
The fact that one wants to be far from peak incarceration makes the Laffer Curve analogy somewhat mismatched. With taxes, the point of the Laffer Curve is that, even if one wants to maximize tax revenue, one shouldn’t maximize the tax rate. The tax revenue maximizing tax rate is less than 100%. With crime however, there is no reason to not just go ahead and maximize the incarceration rate (assuming one can achieve whatever rate one wants). The optimal incarceration rate is 100%.
Scott Sumner
Aug 21 2023 at 12:48pm
“With crime however, there is no reason to not just go ahead and maximize the incarceration rate (assuming one can achieve whatever rate one wants). The optimal incarceration rate is 100%.”
I disagree. Trying to get to 100% is far too costly.
Andrew_FL
Aug 20 2023 at 9:44am
I also question whether British law enforcement is really more stringent than the the US. That would be surprising.
Scott Sumner
Aug 21 2023 at 12:50pm
I suspect that it’s much more effective. Not sure what you mean by “stringent”.
Andrew_FL
Aug 21 2023 at 1:21pm
Stringent has a much clearer meaning than “effective”
Consider these sentences
“UK Policing works better (leads to lower crime rates) because it is more stringent”
“UK Policing leads to lower crime rates because it is more effective (it works better)”
The first statement could be agreed or disagreed with, the second statement is an empty tautology.
I took you to be saying the UK has lower crime and lower incarceration because policing of crime is much more stringent (they are to the right of the peak of the law enforcement larger curve) but you now seem to mean they are to the left of the peak, but just “better” somehow?
Dylan
Aug 21 2023 at 4:07pm
I’m not clear what you mean by “stringent?” I take it to mean something like longer sentencing. What I think Scott is trying to say with effective is that they are better at solving crime/getting a conviction, even if the punishment isn’t as severe as it might be in the U.S.
I remember seeing some work out of Hawaii around parole violations where they focused on catching and punishing quickly even minor infractions, but the punishment itself was fairly mild. This appeared to be more effective than the more traditional approach of having a low probability of getting caught for any specific infraction, but a harsh punishment, which is seen as unfair if you’re the one that happens to get caught and had the book thrown at you.
Andrew_FL
Aug 21 2023 at 4:25pm
No, I do not mean longer sentences. If I had meant longer sentences or stronger punishments I would have said so. More stringent policing has the obvious meaning that police take more frequent and consistent action against crime *considered as a ratio of when it occurs*
Scott Sumner
Aug 22 2023 at 12:38pm
Effectiveness might come from more police on the streets, better trained police, better prosecutors, more security cameras, better protection for witnesses, and a wide variety of other factors.
Dylan
Aug 21 2023 at 2:12pm
Do you have a source for this claim that it is more effective? Not trying to be snarky, just genuinely curious. Quick searches didn’t find any direct comparisons, but one article from the BBC suggested only 8% of crimes led to a charge and another 4% were dealt with outside of court. I imagine there’s a lot of noise in those figures, but it doesn’t strike me as a level of enforcement that would act as a major deterant.
vince
Aug 20 2023 at 2:08pm
Nice trolling.
Scott Sumner
Aug 21 2023 at 12:53pm
I believe that many people on the right have certain “blind spots”. Ask them about:
Defund the local police.
Defund the IRS police.
Defund the FBI.
Defund the sort of police that are going after people like me and the candidates that I support.
Hugh Dumore
Aug 20 2023 at 2:30pm
The author ignores the US trend towards criminalizing everyday behavior, assumes committing a crime requires an overt act.
Thomas L Hutcheson
Aug 20 2023 at 3:07pm
There is a Laffer curve for almost everything.
steve
Aug 20 2023 at 7:08pm
I dont think homicide is an especially good choice for your thesis as homicide is much less likely to be deterred as way too many of them happen while people are intoxicated or high or angry. Sociopaths dont really think they are going to get caught. Regardless, I think it depends upon what you mean by tough on crime. Lots of studies looking at length of incarceration and they dont seem to make much difference. However, knowing that there is a high likelihood you will be caught and sentenced soon after appears to make a difference in crimes where sentencing deterrence matters.
Reporting of crimes may not be reliable, but there is also a large scale, anonymous household survey.
https://bjs.ojp.gov/programs/ncvs
Steve
Scott Sumner
Aug 20 2023 at 7:14pm
“Lots of studies looking at length of incarceration and they don’t seem to make much difference.”
Like most social science studies, they are not very reliable. Take the death penalty. A bunch of studies shows it deters, and a bunch more show it doesn’t deter. So what use are these studies?
I’ve noticed that soft-on-crime episodes tend to be strongly correlated with much higher crime rates. But I agree that length of sentence is not the most important factor, risk of getting arrested is probably more important.
TMC
Aug 21 2023 at 11:29am
“But I agree that length of sentence is not the most important factor, risk of getting arrested is probably more important.”
Yes, also the swiftness of punishment. The justice system needs to be quicker, though I am not a supporter of the number of plea deals made.
Peter
Aug 20 2023 at 8:27pm
So minus the race angle, but along the same reductio ad absurdum thought experiment, if we had perfect enforcement we would have nobody in prison because given we all commit multiple crimes a day, 100% of the population would instantly be imprisoned hence nobody left to actual imprison you. See that is the real problem, overcriminalization to pander to special interest groups which diverts limited law enforcement into preferring legislation enforcement over criminal enforcement as it gets more votes. I mean if police were serious about arresting criminals or prosecutors about prosecuting them, neither would ever even make it out of their own office space do to the plethora of crimes being committed just one desk over.
You say theft, I say jaywalking, you say apples, I say oranges; it’s a individual preference on what is the worse crime. To play devils advocate here, jaywalking laws save more lives than theft laws and why should shop keepers get to externalize their security to their non-customers, i.e. if they actually cared about theft, and they don’t nor do their insurance companies, they would takes steps to fix it internally whereas what they really do is just write it off as an expected deadweight loss. There is a big difference between stopping muggings or home invasions and “I can’t be bothered to put a lock on my door at the bank because why should I have to lower my profit margin to protect my customers assets”. You have to sleep somewhere hence should expect safety, running a business and purposefully choosing to ignore security to cut cost so you can vacation in the Hamptons’ so you don’t hire a guard is entirely optional and a cost you, the business owner, should bare.
As for “how do we get more people in prison”, that’s easy, you just get rid of state prosecutor and police discretion while also allowing private CRIMINAL lawsuits complete the ability to keep fees (just like the courts do) and you will see criminal enforcement skyrocket .. you just won’t like because of preferences, i.e. imagine if every time you exceeded the speed limit 1 mph every person on the road immediately not only filed suit on you, but got to keep the fine you have to pay. Think of all the other laws you casually break including jay walking.
The real answer to many of these problems is exile with mandatory death on return and we need to go back to it. It solves nearly all the problems we care about when it comes to crime. It’s irrelevant if other nations wish to participate, we simply parachute them and tough.
Scott Sumner
Aug 21 2023 at 12:58pm
“if they actually cared about theft, and they don’t nor do their insurance companies, they would takes steps to fix it internally”
This is wrong on so many levels that I wonder if you are just trolling. The government won’t always let them “fix it”, and they do care about losses from shoplifting.
Philo
Aug 20 2023 at 11:27pm
You call for much tougher enforcement of criminal laws. But Hanania says that we (the people) don’t have the stomach for tough enforcement. Is he wrong?
Scott Sumner
Aug 21 2023 at 1:01pm
I’m not sure if he’s wrong, but that’s not what the post is about. I reject the premise that “tough” means higher prison population. He says we don’t have the stomach for a higher prison population.
One can always argue that we don’t have the stomach for every single thing that we are not currently doing, and that’s hard to refute. But he even claims we don’t have the stomach for things we are currently doing, like disparate levels of incarceration of blacks and whites.
tpeach
Aug 21 2023 at 1:26am
Higher rates of incarceration lead to lower levels of incarceration.
On guntrol, this reminds me of when people oppose gun control on freedom and liberty grounds, but then ignore the fact that the widespread ownership of guns itself results in outcomes where we have less freedom and liberty overall, such as militarised police (who are more likely to shoot first out of fear for their own safety) and schools with armed police and metal detectors at every entrance.
My point being that restricting the freedom to own guns can improve freedom in other areas.
Knut P. Heen
Aug 21 2023 at 8:32am
I think you are right when it comes to rational crime. Some crime may however be behavioral crime (criminal behavior is inherited to some degree according to Robert Plomin’s work).
TMC
Aug 21 2023 at 11:36am
Interesting application of Laffer’s curve. It makes sense. I’d add to the discussion some additional deregulation. Non lethal methods of protecting one’s self are criminalized like lethal methods. Pepper spray or tasers along with other methods should be available to all who fear for their safety. Many people fear legal troubles if they fend for themselves or lend support to someone in trouble. There have been a number of instances reported in NYC where people acting to defend themselves or others have been prosecuted for doing so. One of the worst off the wall instances was when a security guard was arrest for possession of a gun – that he wrestled away from a mugger.
Scott Sumner
Aug 22 2023 at 12:45pm
I strongly agree.
robc
Aug 21 2023 at 12:41pm
Apparently not Alan Dershowitz.
Arqiduka
Aug 21 2023 at 6:25pm
Acting on your sensible model poses two problems which RH entangled laconically:
1) go all out on incarceration in phase 1, which will have disparate impact and,
2) hope the model is right, and prison population falls in phase 2, all the while locking up scores more people than today.
Both are significant hurdles.
Floccina
Aug 21 2023 at 9:38pm
I’ve read that the statistics for black murder rates prior to 1970 are grossly under the real rates because police would ignore blacks murdered marking murder deaths as natural causes or suicide to avoid work.
Scott Sumner
Aug 22 2023 at 12:48pm
On the other hand, improvements in medical care for victims have dramatically reduced murder rates relative to what would have occurred with an equal level of violence back in the 1950s.
Our big cities really were safer back then.
Classical Liberal
Aug 22 2023 at 3:16pm
Your favoured approach to crime is analogous to that of your preferred approached to monetary policy. The monetary authority needs to convince market participants that it is willing to engage in massive asset purchases, if need be, to hit its NGDP target, thereby making large asset purchases less likely. The authorities need to show willingness to prosecute and imprison large number of criminals, if need be, in order to ensure that the actual number of criminals prosecuted and imprisoned is relatively low.
Scott Sumner
Aug 23 2023 at 5:57pm
That’s right. And as I mentioned in the post, it also relates to my views on interest rates and monetary policy.
Comments are closed.