In a recent interview of Alex Tabarrok, I saw this exchange:
Auren Hoffman (52:52.27)
Now, your colleague, Tyler Cowen, he recently made an argument that we reached peak economist, that you don’t even need to be an economist anymore to be a member of the Federal Reserve Board. What do you think about that?
Alex (53:09.104)
Arthur Burns, I think was the first one with a PhD. There’s been quite a few since then, but before there were plenty of people on the Federal Reserve without PhDs in economics.
There’s a lot to unpack there:
1. Have we reached peak economist?
2. And do we need economists determining monetary policy?
In my view, monetary economics peaked in the period before the Great Recession of 2008, and has declined a bit since that time. The second question is much more difficult to answer. Let’s begin with an analogy, which shows a common mistake when thinking about this sort of problem.
Suppose you are asked for an opinion on how to fix things in democratic country that suffers from poor governance. What is your solution? Perhaps you despair over the fact that voters are picking the wrong politicians. You suggest that the country become a dictatorship, and appoint someone like Lee Kuan Yew as head of state.
I hope you see the problem. Unless you are the dictator, you don’t get to pick which person gets appointed. Once a country becomes a dictatorship, it’s a dog-eat-dog world of competition to climb to the top. The person that succeeds is far more likely to resemble Nicolas Maduro or Vladimir Putin than Lee Kuan Yew.
In the case of monetary policy, the issue is not whether Ben Bernanke, Janet Yellen or Jay Powell did the best job; the issue is what type of person is likely to achieve the best outcome. To complicate things even further, the performance of the Fed chair is not identical to the performance of the Fed as a whole, as decisions are made by committee. In my view, the Fed as a whole did better under Yellen than either her predecessor or her replacement, but I cannot be sure how much of that was due to her decision-making, and how much was due to the others being dealt a bad hand. In plain English, it’s complicated.
Other government institutions face similar dilemmas. Is it necessary to have a law degree to serve on the Supreme Court? Is it desirable? Is it necessary to have a finance degree to serve on the SEC? Is it desirable?
It won’t be long before we’ll be asking whether an AI might be just as effective as a human being.
I am an elitist, but not a credentialist. I strongly favor of staffing the Fed with people with a high level of expertise in monetary policy. (Today, that’s true of some top Fed officials, but not all.) However, I don’t much care whether they have a PhD in economics. For instance, I think Tyler Cowen would be an above average Supreme Court justice, despite the fact that (AFAIK) he doesn’t have a law degree. Of course, he’ll never be appointed because his votes would not be “reliable”.
I have observed that most people are overconfident of their ability to do good monetary policy. That’s probably also true of me, as it’s always difficult to have an unbiased view of your own ability. When people are overconfident, they tend to have the following thought process: “The Fed chair really screwed up there! I could do a better job than him.” On the first point they are often correct, on the second point I’m not so sure.
People tend to recall their successes much more than there failures, for very natural reasons. Thus they recall asset price bubbles they correctly called, but forget about the assets that went up much further after they called it a bubble. I’ve noticed an almost perfect negative correlation between those who had sound opinions on monetary policy in 2009, and those who had sound opinions on monetary policy in 2021—including yours truly.
You may have heard the remark about it being better to be governed by a random group of people picked from the Boston phone book rather than the faculty at Harvard. But on closer examination, is that really true? Professors hold lots of nutty views, but so do average people. For instance, polls suggest that average people are supportive of some shockingly authoritarian policy proposals. And even if average people have sounder views than most professors on “woke” issues, I doubt whether they have sounder views on questions such as where to set the interest rate on bank reserves.
Some might argue that they are not advocating picking Fed officials out of the phone book; rather they favor appointing highly experienced people from banking and finance. Sorry, I’d rather have plumbers appointed to the Fed. At least with plumbers, we’ll understand that they don’t know what they are doing, and we’d be more likely to constrain them with a restrictive policy rule, or let the Fed staff decide. Many top people in finance and banking are shockingly ignorant of the basics of monetary economics, but don’t know that. If you think “reasoning from a price change” is a failure of some economists (and it is) check out some of the comments made by top business people. “Maybe a big interest rate cut would scare people, and hence reduce demand.” “Maybe a big interest rate increase would boost demand, by putting more money in the pockets of savers.” It makes you want to cry.
Among economists, reasoning from a price change is like a low-grade fever. Among non-economists, it’s a global pandemic.
So yes, on average an economist will know more about at monetary policy than a non-economist. But Fed chairs don’t just need to be smart; they need to be effective leaders, an area where business people often have an advantage. In the end I suspect this is one of those 55%-45% thing, where economists are slightly better, but non-economists will outperform economists so frequently that it will be hard to discern the difference. Nonetheless, if serving on the Fed is actually a position where ignorance is better than knowledge, then it’s the only such position that I know of.
PS. In this post I am describing averages. I’ve met a number of people in business and finance that are well informed on monetary policy.
PPS. In this post, I’m focusing on the issue of monetary policy determination. Obviously, we need people with banking expertise for banking regulation. I wish we followed the UK practice of having separate boards for these two tasks.
PPPS. Readers of this blog know that I oppose discretionary monetary policy. This post is based on the assumption that I won’t get my way, at least for the foreseeable future.
READER COMMENTS
Matthias
Aug 19 2024 at 4:58am
I, for one, would make an excellent Fed chair: I would tell them to buy more assets with newly printed money, when the 5 year TIPS spread is below target, and sell assets from the balance sheet when the TIPS spread is above target.
(If anyone insist on translating that policy into the language of interest rates, I’d have some boffin work that out. I’m sure on any given day with any given TIPS spread there’s some implied interest rate target that would work out to have exactly the same buying/selling impact as what I outlined above.)
The rest of the time I’d spent golfing. (Or whatever it is bankers are supposed to do with their free time.)
P.S. Nominal GDP targeting would be even better, but I’m assuming here that the Fed chair can’t change that target given by the political masters.
Scott Sumner
Aug 19 2024 at 1:45pm
“Nominal GDP targeting would be even better, but I’m assuming here that the Fed chair can’t change that target given by the political masters.”
That would not be changing the target. Congress gave the Fed a dual mandate, not an inflation target.
Rajat
Aug 19 2024 at 7:56am
I think ‘knowledge’ is a tricky variable to measure, because it often comes laden with fallacious but strongly-held views or ideology. For every Bernanke there is a John Cochrane or, god forbid, Stephanie Kelton (after all, she has a Masters from Cambridge and a PhD in economics). While Jay Powell has not faced tighter governance constraints due to his lack of economics qualifications (like you think a plumber appointed to the Fed Chair position might), he has perhaps for that reason appeared to have been more forward-looking and market-sensitive than his predecessor. My impression (from afar) of Yellen is that she was very attached to the Phillips Curve relationship as a predictor of inflation, which caused her to run monetary policy too tight for too long. In Australia, our previous RBA Governor, Philip Lowe (PhD, MIT), was guilty of the same sin (or worse), partly due to a misguided understanding of the Phillips Curve but also due to his attachment to the ‘leaning against the wind’ views he expressed in his 2002 paper with Claudio Borio on avoiding asset price ‘bubbles’. The new Governor, Michelle Bullock has no PhD and had spent the last few years with responsibility for the broader financial system and business systems (snore!), but so far seems to be less interested in being seen as clever.
Scott Sumner
Aug 19 2024 at 1:47pm
I think Yellen did a better job than Powell, who was way too expansionary during 2021-22. Yellen wasn’t perfect, but did a decent job.
Thomas L Hutcheson
Aug 22 2024 at 7:25am
How should policy instruments have been different 2020-21? As expansionary as it was 2020-1 to 20yy-m and then gradually or sharply less 20yy-m+1 – 20yy-m+? What are the data that should have guided the policy?
Jerry Melsky
Aug 19 2024 at 10:07am
Here’s a conspiracy theory: Full employment and stable prices are what they want you to think is the mission of the Fed. In fact the Fed’s mission is to protect the banking system from liquidity risk. This explains why expertise in finance and banking but ignorance of monetary economics still qualifies one for Fed leadership. It also explains why banks in general survived 2008 as well as they did. And, it explains why we are still shoveling cash in the form of IRO into the banks.
Scott Sumner
Aug 19 2024 at 1:48pm
I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories, to put it mildly.
Jim Glass
Aug 21 2024 at 3:33am
No, although all Justices have in fact been lawyers, if sometimes just barely. But many have had no judicial experience at all — as judges — before arriving on the top Court.
The Supreme Court has always faced the challenge of having no power of its own. The President controls the guns, Congress controls the money, the Supreme Court controls squat. Its “power” depends entirely on having credibility among politicians and public. If that falls to the point where they decide to ignore or defy it, they can (and have.) To deal with this, historically it usually has had a couple members with much more political than judicial experience.
Fiat money’s arrival created probably the starkest threat of the Court being totally steamrolled by politics. After the Civil War, investors who had bought US bonds paying gold money for them before the war were upset to repaid in greenbacks. When the Supreme Court upheld that they responded, “Fool us once…” When the USA went back on the gold standard they required all US bonds to contain a written clause explicitly requiring them to be redeemed in gold.
In 1933 FDR went off the gold standard, devalued the dollar against gold and required the bonds to be paid of with the new devalued paper money. This was an absolutely blatant violation of the bonds’ written terms. (Default!) Bond investors sued, obviously, and the issue went to the Supremes. (The Gold Clause Cases.) Even FDR’s appointees were appalled. Justice Strong said he’d never invest in US bonds again. Justice Brandeis called the situation ‘‘terrifying in its implications’’.
FDR expected the Court to rule against him, planned to defy it, and wrote a speech to give to the nation stating sometimes a government must ignore its courts (like in so many other countries). He also prepared harsh steps to kneecap the Court. At the time he’d certainly would have gotten his way. This now forgotten episode was far more dangerous to the Court than FDR’s later “packing” attempt. It could have destroyed the Court as we know it.
The Justice with the political experience at this time was the Chief, Charles Evans Hughes, who had been governor of New York, US Secretary of State, and former Republican Candidate for President. He saved the Court via a lot of political dealing and writing a labyrinthian and (intentionally?) confusing decision merging several opinions, which castigated the government and upheld the Constitution — while also leaving the bond investors out of luck, holding …
The crisis passed. Hughes is also credited with using his political acumen to serve as the critical “swing vote” while the court was extremely polarized between New Dealers and old guard, 1933-1941, and to get the Court through FDR’s later packing attempt. He was a lawyer but never spent a day working as a judge before being appointed to the Court. It can pay to have a politician on board.
TLDR: There’s no requirement that a Supreme Court Justice be a lawyer although all have been. (Not all went to law school or had degrees. FDR appointee James Byrnes didn’t finish high school, passing the bar exam via self-study.) But a good number of Justices have had no experience as judges before going to the Court, bringing to it valuable experience from other areas. Lack of such other experience perhaps being a problem with the Justices today … And: don’t let anyone tell you the USA has never defaulted on its bonds by their terms..
Knut P. Heen
Aug 22 2024 at 6:30am
Both in microeconomics and in financial economics, an increase in the interest rate may increase present consumption. The reason is the wealth effect. You have to save less today for retirement if the interest rate is higher. The effect of compound interest is much stronger at higher rates. It works for real investments too. Imagine that the yield on your potato field suddenly doubles. You are now twice as rich as before; hence you consume twice as much. These arguments are based on the real interest rate and therefore not directly applicable to the rate set by the FED.
Todd Ramsey
Aug 22 2024 at 11:22am
Will you continue blogging at EconLog?
Floccina
Aug 24 2024 at 8:31pm
Isn’t the problem that we are relying on the board to make good policy?
Would we be better off with 5 currencies and federal reserves?
Comments are closed.